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Old 12-13-2006, 09:03 AM   #16696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kewdawg
Using spacers under the front block will decrease the amount weight being transferred, to the front, from the rear - a good thing, in dusty conditions.
Actually this is quite the opposite. Adding a spacer under the front block of the front end gives pro-dive, which increases the weight transfer. To add anti-dive you need to put spacers under the Bridge block...
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:54 AM   #16697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRF415boy
Actually this is quite the opposite. Adding a spacer under the front block of the front end gives pro-dive, which increases the weight transfer. To add anti-dive you need to put spacers under the Bridge block...
Don't know where you're getting your info. from, but you may want to research it a little more.
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:57 AM   #16698
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From my personal experience on the front suspension blocks, adding shims under the front block takes away some initial steering but gains mid to exit steering, adding shims under the brigde block increases initial steering but loses mid to exit steering.

Charles
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Old 12-13-2006, 09:59 AM   #16699
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Giordano
...anyone interested in a 415 MSX Sedan let me know. I have two available one is a 4mm foam tire carpet chassis MSX convert and the other is a rubber tire MSX. Both in exceptional conditions
Hey Carl, You have a PM regarding the cars!
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:04 AM   #16700
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I'm in agreement with TRF415boy.
Shims under the front block = Kickup/Pro-dive
Less initial steering, more mid to exit. This is mainly due to the extra castor caused by running the arms at an angle.

Shims under the rear block = Anti-dive
More initial steering, less mid to exit. Reduced castor angle...


@WRXTC

Currently, your running almost 6.5degrees of castor (2mm under the blocks adds about 2.5deg, 0.8mm is roughly one degree). So for starters I would reduce that a bit, say to 0.5 or 1mm. 2mm is a lot to have...
See my above comments on what that does.

Other things to look into.
Stiffer rear anti-roll bar - with mentioning that the snapping out is worse without a roll bar, it could potentially be that the rear tyres are suddenly losing grip due to roll. Try a medium bar on the rear with the red springs to start.

Rear droop; try less, as this will reduce weight transfer to the front.

Tyres; I know it sounds daft, but how old are your tyres? Could be time for a new set... A lot of handling issues I know of can be traced to tyres that are long past their best.

Rear shock oil; Lower the weight in the rear shocks. Your using the softest springs in the range on the rear, and a hard set on the front... but both use the same weight oil The trick with good shocks to get the damping rate matched to the spring rate. Unfortuantly, there's no hard and fast rule... although a softer spring tends to prefer softer oil, otherwise it'll become over damped (shock will have little or no damping effect, and feel hard). I'd try 25 or 30 to start in the rear. You could also try going back to the 2hole pistons like that, but personally I find the car waaaaay too bouncy with 2 hole pistons, 3 holes seem to work better (both front and rear).

HiH
Ed
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Old 12-13-2006, 10:39 AM   #16701
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Actually it has nothing to do with castor but with the anti-dive coefficient. Maybe you need to do more research about it...
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:22 AM   #16702
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwikvdub
Hey Carl, You have a PM regarding the cars!
aLex ... c'mon over to the "blue side"

lol
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:27 AM   #16703
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Originally Posted by SpeedDesignz
aLex ... c'mon over to the "blue side"

lol
It was an easy sell to Alex this past weekend at SSH. His eyes had a blue glaze over them. Open some others' eyes too.
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Old 12-13-2006, 11:55 AM   #16704
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err yes it does..... adding shims under the blocks angles the arms... which changes your castor angle as well. You should know more than anyone it's a combination of factors... not just one.
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Old 12-13-2006, 12:54 PM   #16705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRFMAD
Hi guy's
Do any of you guy's have a picture of your MSX with the Cool Can Fan on it. There is no picture on there site with the MSX.
I think Tryhard and Charles use them.
Thanks
Addam
This on my carpet ride...still for sale...outdoor msx had been sold
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:18 PM   #16706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
I'm in agreement with TRF415boy.
Shims under the front block = Kickup/Pro-dive
Less initial steering, more mid to exit. This is mainly due to the extra castor caused by running the arms at an angle.

Shims under the rear block = Anti-dive
More initial steering, less mid to exit. Reduced castor angle...


@WRXTC

Currently, your running almost 6.5degrees of castor (2mm under the blocks adds about 2.5deg, 0.8mm is roughly one degree). So for starters I would reduce that a bit, say to 0.5 or 1mm. 2mm is a lot to have...
See my above comments on what that does.

Other things to look into.
Stiffer rear anti-roll bar - with mentioning that the snapping out is worse without a roll bar, it could potentially be that the rear tyres are suddenly losing grip due to roll. Try a medium bar on the rear with the red springs to start.

Rear droop; try less, as this will reduce weight transfer to the front.

Tyres; I know it sounds daft, but how old are your tyres? Could be time for a new set... A lot of handling issues I know of can be traced to tyres that are long past their best.

Rear shock oil; Lower the weight in the rear shocks. Your using the softest springs in the range on the rear, and a hard set on the front... but both use the same weight oil The trick with good shocks to get the damping rate matched to the spring rate. Unfortuantly, there's no hard and fast rule... although a softer spring tends to prefer softer oil, otherwise it'll become over damped (shock will have little or no damping effect, and feel hard). I'd try 25 or 30 to start in the rear. You could also try going back to the 2hole pistons like that, but personally I find the car waaaaay too bouncy with 2 hole pistons, 3 holes seem to work better (both front and rear).

HiH
Ed
Thanks mate,
Will give some of those things a try and even though I just purchased my Stratus 3 maybe 1 month ago I am going to get a Mazda 6 on the weekend and give that a try. I actually like the shocks better with 2 hole pistons on the rear, this did actually help a little. In regards to the tyres, they were 1 run old Sorex 36r (basically just been scrubbed a little), I tried brand new Take Off 27's and new Sorex 32,s and even a set of 2 run old 28r's and I was using Nosram traction compound with MM tyre warmers to cook it in. Our track is fairly bumpy thus the high ride height and I found with 3 hole pistons at the front the car was bottoming out on certain sweepers so I put 2 hole ones in and left 3 hole ones in the rear and I didn't have any lighter weight shock oil with me Hopefully I can get out this weekend and try reducing the rear drop. I have basically 1 and a half months to iron out this problem before racing starts next season, so I should be ok.
Thanks for the help guys and please if you can think of anything else feel free to share it with me.

Jay

Last edited by WRXTC; 12-13-2006 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:37 PM   #16707
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Does any one have a good starting setup for open mod 6cell foam carpet on a medium traction track for my MSX MRE
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:43 PM   #16708
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I'll post my MRE setup I used last weekend when I get off from work in an hour. BTW - work sux. Does anyone have a fix for that?
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:15 PM   #16709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXTC
I am really struggling to get rear end grip. The car is oversteering lots when backing off to enter a corner. Under throttle it is very stable. The front end is planted and awesome just the rear likes to step out when I lift off the throttle. I have attached my current setup, would really appreciate it if someone can give me some tips regarding setup and how to make the rear more stable off throttle. I have tried the yellow springs on the rear and no stabilizer bar and it's even worse.
Thanks Jay.
hey jay 415boy has lost the plot someware had a look at your setup where is your car breaking aaway is it at speed when you entre the corner or when the car has got into the corner also what is the car like through slow chicaines personly looking at your setup i think it is way to soft and the rear suspention is getting to its full roll and breaking away try hard is corect about kick up if you put a spacer under your 1b you angle the lower arm up this will give you more caster it will also change the front weight transfer and it will also give you more camber change as the car turns which may not help you situation and i also saw you had the front top link in the no 2 position which is a shorter top link and again more camber change as the car leans on the front end maybe go to position 3 looking at your rear link i see you have 2mm on the hub and 2mm on the inside pickup point (top link rear) it may pay to remove the 2mm outside and inside and just run a 1mm inside to give a slightly more angled top link and a little more camber change on the rear. but before all that change your shocks ive found running 40wt front [email protected] pistons hpi silver (16.9lb) springs and 35wt rear [email protected] hpi silver (16.9lb) works very well on bumpy track and [email protected] front and rear on smooth tracks if you haven't got hpi springs i think tamiya white are 17.25.

i wouldn't use kickup untill you have the car settled
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Old 12-13-2006, 03:23 PM   #16710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris_morrison_
Does any one have a good starting setup for open mod 6cell foam carpet on a medium traction track for my MSX MRE
I'll have to write one up. It felt so good last weekend, the T2 went on the shelf.

I'll be trying it this weekend with a 7 turn.
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