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Old 08-04-2006, 08:51 AM   #14986
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarshGuy
Are you saying use these short arms both in front and in back?
Yup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruisaaja
Hey

Sorry, i`m newbie about Tamiya. I did`t get it? How you adjust suspension blocks or add more shims to get same track width ?

Are you sure, do i only change those LWT arms front and rear... no swing shafts at all?
Basically, the theory goes that the short arms were introduced to stop people using the cyclone suspension (which seemed to work well) on the rug. These arms are very close to the hinge pin distance of the cyclone arms.... I know, caused I've measured both with verniers.
As there is only a small difference over the standard lenght LWT arms (~1 - 1.5mm) they don't need a change in swing shaft.

Quote:
Is it easier to change wider hexacons also?

My point is to get my car leagal after that carpet modification
Track width change. Two methods to change it.
1) Axle shims
2) Suspension blocks

1) this is the easiest one to do, simply add shims to the outside of the hex hub. Personally I don't like doing this, as it reduces the amount of hex hub in contact with the wheel... and on some of the pre-gules we have to use over here, that means a very small amount of plastic transmitting the power.
The other method you can use under this is changing the hex hub itself, I know tamiya sell some 6mm width (std MSX is 5mm) ones, and the original 415 came with 4mm wide.

2) Slighty more complex to change using suspension blocks. Basically, the blocks do two things, change toe, and change track width.
As I'm sure you realise there are a large number of blocks avaliable, each of these is a slightly different width. They range, from widest to narrowest,
E, D, C, B, A, X, XA, XB, XC, XD
there is 0.5 toe difference between each block, now the clever bit is, you can have the same toe in setting, but vary the track width.
For example, on the rear you could run XD/A or X/E in. Both give 2.5 toe-in, however the XD/A combination will result in a much narrower track width.

playing around with track width is a fairly useful tool, on the rear it can help the car to rotate much faster, on the front provides more steering. Downside is it can make the car quite unstable, and tricky to drive.

For the short arms, you can probably go as wide as possible without fear of being over width. I'm using X/E on my Evo5, with the short arms, and 0.5mm on the axles, and it's on the limit width wise.

HiH
Ed
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Old 08-04-2006, 08:54 AM   #14987
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Just wonder, what's the difference on driving characteristic between short LWT arm and standard LWT arm? Faster transition?
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:09 AM   #14988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
Well.... probably would bolt a set of the short LWT arms on, and then pretty much run the carpet setup I was using last year, which is pretty much based on David Spashetts setup.

Shocks;
3 hole pistons with 50 or 60wt oil, No foam in the top (front a little heavier than the rear, due to stiffer spring)
White springs front, blue rear,
Hole 3 in arms (middle one on the long LWT),
Hole 2 on front tower,
Hole 4 rear tower

Camber links;
Hole 3 front bulkhead, 3mm under inner link
Hole 2 rear bulkhead, 4mm under link,
Hole 3 rear hub (outside), 3mm under link (this works brilliantly at getting the rear of the car settled on turn in, if the car feels snappy try lengthening the rear link)

Suspension blocks;
B/A or D/D on the front (B/A if more steering required, D/D if it's too twitchy)
XA/D or X/D on the rear (2.5 or 2 deg of toe)
No shims under any blocks

Wheelbase;
As standard

Dual 1-ways
No roll bars
6 front and 4 rear on the droop gauge
1.5deg camber all round
5mm front ride height, 5.5mm rear

HiH
Ed
So to turn the MRE into a "rubber carpet" looking over your recommendations I would need to pick up the short arms, 3 hole pistons and dual oneways (I already picked up all the roll center chingaderas), is that all the extra parts I'm reading above? And on the above I have al the 1[BLAH] blocks, so since you didn't indicate those, does that mean I would add a 1mm spacer to them?
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:29 AM   #14989
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The 1[blah] blocks are the ones I was talking about. I just don't bother quoting the 1 when talking about them (I should really, as the Evo4 blocks are labelled with just the letters, and are 1mm taller).

And yup, thats basically my recommendations Always seemed to find the one-ways best on carpet.

Just a quick note though, having done the TA05 conversion on my current MSX, you can't run the one-ways from that car on this one, as the belts are the opposite sides. You'll need to purchase all the centre pulley parts from the 415 (layshaft, spur holder, 1-way pulley, rear pulley, end stopper) to get it to work.

HiH
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Old 08-04-2006, 09:42 AM   #14990
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Harsh: tamiya is coming out with new center one-way. We can play with my center and front one-way to try to fit without mods..also get the tit-nitride coated outer hinge pins for the evo5 arms. You can also get the 6mm hub hexes so you can space out using the wheel hex instead of the block or spacer

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...id=269&id=6112

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...id=426&id=6110

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...nid=269&id=823

Last edited by JayL; 08-04-2006 at 09:56 AM.
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:41 AM   #14991
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I am supposed to be getting the center oneway and front housing's ...the ones listed in the "addendum" probably by Monday ...hoipefully the addendum had the correct "new" part numbers in it? ...if not ...ebay here I come



Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL
Harsh: tamiya is coming out with new center one-way. We can play with my center and front one-way to try to fit without mods..also get the tit-nitride coated outer hinge pins for the evo5 arms. You can also get the 6mm hub hexes so you can space out using the wheel hex instead of the block or spacer

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...id=269&id=6112

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...id=426&id=6110

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...nid=269&id=823
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:51 AM   #14992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarshGuy
So to turn the MRE into a "rubber carpet" looking over your recommendations I would need to pick up the short arms, 3 hole pistons and dual oneways (I already picked up all the roll center chingaderas), is that all the extra parts I'm reading above? And on the above I have al the 1[BLAH] blocks, so since you didn't indicate those, does that mean I would add a 1mm spacer to them?
Sounds like a lot of work to me...I thought you "had" a car that worked really good on carpet... It just sounds like to much extra work just to get it to work as well as what you all ready have...Been their done that... I would use the MRE for Speedworld, Ripon...etc and the RDX for carpet...just a thought...
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Old 08-04-2006, 10:56 AM   #14993
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Originally Posted by xxxkat
Sounds like a lot of work to me...I thought you "had" a car that worked really good on carpet... It just sounds like to much extra work just to get it to work as well as what you all ready have...Been their done that... I would use the MRE for Speedworld, Ripon...etc and the RDX for carpet...just a thought...
Well ...I guess I'm one of those "wierd guys" that enjoys messing with cars trying to get "the ultimate rig".
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:10 AM   #14994
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Actually Kat: Harsh should get an evo5, as he doesn't run MOD, for carpet and the MRE for Speedworld
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:31 AM   #14995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL
Actually Kat: Harsh should get an evo5, as he doesn't run MOD, for carpet and the MRE for Speedworld
How well does the evo5 work? Does it have any issues with the ring and pinion gears like the evo4 had or any of the other gear/shaft cars do. I thought the 415 MRE would work better on the carpet and the evo5 on asphalt...but since I'm wrong more than I am right... I thought I would ask, At my local track the TAO5's (with a lot of mods) is or has been faster than the 415MSX's, Is the MRE different enough to make that much of a difference in handling?
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Old 08-04-2006, 11:44 AM   #14996
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayL
Actually Kat: Harsh should get an evo5, as he doesn't run MOD, for carpet and the MRE for Speedworld
Well if that's the case then it will be the RDX for carpet ...I don't have time to get another kit together and tune before IIC ...so sounds like I'll end up with *possibly* MRE for asphalt and RDX for carpet ...that's kewl, but I'll still give the MRE a chance on carpet.
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Old 08-04-2006, 12:55 PM   #14997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TryHard
TAM53928 - Short LWT Reversable suspension arms

Best off changing to them first, it shouls be noted that your car will be 2-3mm narrower in track with them on though, so need to adjust camber and steering link back to original. If you want to run the same track width, either adjust the suspension blocks (go wider) or more shims on the axles.

HiH
Ed
How do the shock mount holes compare to the normal arms?
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:07 PM   #14998
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When using the short arms what is the advantage? What does the car do differently? Are they only used for carpet rubber or used outdoors as well? When using them do you widen the car out to the same width as with the standard arms? Thanks guys. I started reading from thread one and you guys have a ton of info out on the 415 platform. I'm very happy I bought one.

Also has anyone found out the release date for the 415 front ball diff?

Brian
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:37 PM   #14999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Anthony
How do the shock mount holes compare to the normal arms?
If you put the arms side by side, and use the outer hingepin hole as the reference, the shocks holes line up, bar the outermost (which is no longer on the arm).
Pic to help
Taken on the front arms, same applies to the rear ones. You can also see the difference in length.

I have to admit, I'm yet to try the MSX with the short arms (might do at the up coming national), only on my Evo5.... but that was a weapon indoors

Hih
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Tamiya TRF415-dscf0018b.jpg  
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Old 08-04-2006, 01:54 PM   #15000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Anthony
When using the short arms what is the advantage? What does the car do differently? Are they only used for carpet rubber or used outdoors as well? When using them do you widen the car out to the same width as with the standard arms? Thanks guys. I started reading from thread one and you guys have a ton of info out on the 415 platform. I'm very happy I bought one.

Also has anyone found out the release date for the 415 front ball diff?

Brian

not sure about the arm question, but the alloy front diffs are out in Japan, have a couple sets coming with my MRE...
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