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Old 01-23-2009, 06:36 PM   #1
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Default LiPo Battery Dimensions - Will ROAR change?

Will ROAR make a rule change to bring the LiPo dimensions in line with EFRA?

The current ROAR rules limit the dimension of a LiPo pack to:
L 139mm
W 47mm
H 25.1mm

EFRA on 11/1/08 limits the LiPo pack dimensions to:
L 139mm
W 47mm
H 23.5mm

The key dimension is the height. Some of the existing TC have a hard time fitting a 5000 mAh battery under the top deck that is sized according to the maximum ROAR dimensions. Plus shimming the top deck is a crude work around to the problem. The 23.5mm dimension that EFRA allows is a better solution as touring car racers migrate from NiMh to LiPo technologies. Plus if US drivers go to the World in 2010, most likely the LiPo dimension rules will be based on EFRA.

Reedy has just announced their LiPo battery with a larger capacity and still conforms to EFRA dimensions.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:52 PM   #2
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a fair # of people bought lipos and they'll continue to buy em as we put out bigger (but smaller) and 'better' 1s.

if this 'revolution' allows manufacturers to construct all new cars w/different chassis layouts that will force most all racers to buy more touring cars and still buy batteries when they 'have to have them'. well i think we can feed a few more mouths in the RC industry now couldnt we.

well thats a poetic note.

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Old 01-23-2009, 06:59 PM   #3
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I really think it would help MFGs if ROAR and EFRA reached an agreement.
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Old 01-23-2009, 07:52 PM   #4
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ROAR shouldn't have to change as EFRA rules were released after the ROAR ones. So EFRA should of followed the ROAR rules.

As far as packs not fitting in certain TC cars I'm sure the manufacturers of these cars can release cars that will fit the 25.1 x 139mm packs.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:05 PM   #5
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Plenty of packs available in various sizes. Just get the pack that best fits your car.
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:11 PM   #6
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Yes there are plenty of packs to choose from but it would be in this sport/hobbies best interest if all the worldwide sanctioning bodies can make standard rules.

The sub-c cell and Lipo rules are different which makes it real hard for manufacturers and can increase the cost for racers who decide to go to races in different part of the World.

If EFRA was concerned about making them fit in cars then they should of went with 20-22mm for height as 23.5mm is still to tall for certain cars.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:30 AM   #7
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i think they picked 23 because thats the std sub-c size. ie height is the same.
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Old 01-24-2009, 12:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason View Post
i think they picked 23 because thats the std sub-c size. ie height is the same.
Yea but sub C cells dont sit on top of the chassis like a lipo does.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:03 AM   #9
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Personally, I think a 21mm height without bump, or 23mm with bump, is the rule that will be in identical height with 23mm subC rule.

But I think it's all down to which corp has voting right in EFRA/ROAR board...

However, I do favor EFRA rule than ROAR rule
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:43 AM   #10
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This is yet another example of the RC Racing Sanctioning bodies making things more difficult then they need to be. Although I do not know the reasoning behind EFRA choosing the smaller number, the horse is out of the barn. So they make it more expensive for EVERYONE. Becuase we all know that Battery Manfacturers can sell product for less money if they only have to sell one case.

Maybe EFRA could take thier head out of thier collective ass, and follow the lead that ROAR took.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:28 AM   #11
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Let's think this way:

25.1mm pack won't be able to use in EFRA race
23.5mm pack is able to use in both ROAR/EFRA race

Also, thinking which ride able to use 25.1mm pack without mod/shift battery out, and than thinking how many other rides able to use 23.5mm pack without mod.

As any business, put bigger market on higher prioirty is the golden rule. Also, the larger volumn would means lower production cost, so you can either get better margin, or, lower your selling price for price advantage.

I guess it's quite clear what should be done for manufactor in such situation.


IT'S SERIOUS BUSINESS....
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:23 PM   #12
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Are you kidding me... ROAR's spec was out LONG BEFORE EFRA had a spec, so once again, why do it any different ? You guys are completely conciented... Lets think of it this way... Already have one spec, and battery builders are building to it.. Creating another spec that they have to build to, is counter productive and not cost effective.

When it comes to chassis, Most chassis development in TC is on what, a 12 to 24 month cycle ? . The racers make due until there chassis fit the larger lipos, or they just buy one from a manufacturer that fits now. What will ultimately happen is all the cars will be designed to fit the larger lipos anyhow, why will the car designers develop a platform that will only work for the smaller spec. They will design a car that fits both....

So tell me again what good is the smaller spec for EFRA ?


All this over a few MM...



Quote:
Originally Posted by ttso View Post
Let's think this way:

25.1mm pack won't be able to use in EFRA race
23.5mm pack is able to use in both ROAR/EFRA race

Also, thinking which ride able to use 25.1mm pack without mod/shift battery out, and than thinking how many other rides able to use 23.5mm pack without mod.

As any business, put bigger market on higher prioirty is the golden rule. Also, the larger volumn would means lower production cost, so you can either get better margin, or, lower your selling price for price advantage.

I guess it's quite clear what should be done for manufactor in such situation.


IT'S SERIOUS BUSINESS....
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Old 01-24-2009, 10:43 PM   #13
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It doesn't matter which rule is "correct", every manufactor trying to get best benefit out of rule, or, if manufactor able to, change the rule for self interest.

Buy what you like, it's just that simple.
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Old 01-25-2009, 06:01 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPotter View Post
Are you kidding me... ROAR's spec was out LONG BEFORE EFRA had a spec, so once again, why do it any different ? You guys are completely conciented... Lets think of it this way... Already have one spec, and battery builders are building to it.. Creating another spec that they have to build to, is counter productive and not cost effective.

When it comes to chassis, Most chassis development in TC is on what, a 12 to 24 month cycle ? . The racers make due until there chassis fit the larger lipos, or they just buy one from a manufacturer that fits now. What will ultimately happen is all the cars will be designed to fit the larger lipos anyhow, why will the car designers develop a platform that will only work for the smaller spec. They will design a car that fits both....

So tell me again what good is the smaller spec for EFRA ?


All this over a few MM...
+1 +1 +1

I think EFRA made their own rule, from what I heard from a friend at the track, because they took into consideration chassis from older cars. I think the ROAR rules for LiPo are too big for older chassis? EFRA wanted to make a size that is adaptable to older chassis.

There is no need to have two different rules for racing. It's pretty ridiculous. It's bad enough this is an expensive hobby. Complicating rules for manufacturers will only drive prices higher because of manufacturing the same product with two different designs. As far as I see it, there should be one rule governing races and that is it.

Pissing contests only make people leave the hobby more quickly, or they will not be welcoming to prospective R/C racers in the future. Then when crowds thin to 4 or 5 people at a track, what is the point of the hobby after that?

As far as I see it, if ROAR developed the rules first and set their rules in stone before EFRA, then ROAR rules it should be.

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Last edited by HarryN; 01-25-2009 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Jesus told me to.
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Old 01-25-2009, 07:26 AM   #15
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I really dont understand your guy's problem. If some of you are traveling the world to race, does an extra couple hundred in battery packs really make a difference in your budget. Jeesh, I would assume if you are from North America and are going to Europe to race, you are probably sponsored pretty heavily to begin with. I think some of you guys just wanna make a topic to bitch about.
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