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Old 10-31-2003, 09:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by antoniop

Is it just my feeling or Trinity sounds more and more desperate about every little thing that competes with them?
strange...that what I'm feeling too I'm agree they make some good stuff (not all the time) but I don't like this kind of company who care too much about profit (it's not always the good strategy to make money)
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Old 10-31-2003, 09:52 AM   #17
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My point about rev limiting is this:

In sportsman mode the limit is 24,000, the Novak SS BL is rated at 5800 RPM/V so you would only need 4.1V to get the motor going as fast as it could. The worst cells will put out more than this so how goos your cells are should not matter.
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Old 10-31-2003, 02:05 PM   #18
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Right, in limited mode virtually any 6 cell pack could meet the limits of the Novak system. Now if other BL systems used the same 24k limit, you could have a class for that and batteries wouldn't matter too much. 3300's charged at 2 amps would yield full limited speed and runtimes in the 15-20 minute range. Now thats racing.
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Old 10-31-2003, 02:32 PM   #19
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Default Novak ss

I bought 5 of these systems to test in all types of cars and have been very impressed with there performance.I took one and geared and geared trying to make it go thermal and shut down.It didnt shut down but got so hot the capacitors on the board melted and slid off.Now thats my own fault.But i have noticed in another one its performance has gone off its getting slower even after changing bearings.I still love the, awesome run time...........Just my 2 cents
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Old 10-31-2003, 03:51 PM   #20
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Default Re: trinity & BL (ahahahhahahhahha)

Quote:
Originally posted by utieh
what do you think of that, pretty funny...
Brushless Motor System Myths

These points below are in reaction to ads that have been run which we feel could be misleading to the customer about Brushless Motor Systems. In our opinion, this is a technology that is not all it is advertised to be.

Only Need One Motor: False, you will still need several motors for each application you decide to use them in.

Motors are Indestructible: False, Brushless motors can still be susceptible to shorts due to faulty winding, debris entering the motor and heat.

Torque and RPM are the same as brushed: False, you will need to give up one for the other. That is another reason why you need more then one brushless motor.

No Maintenance: False, cleaning, bearing replacement and magnet zapping will still be needed for top performance. Also, any damage to the motor can may cause the motor to fail.

Brushless will take the battery war out of play: False, Batteries will play a bigger part since brushless systems depend on high voltage, amps and super low internal resistance to operate as a race motor. Bottom line... you will still need to have quality batteries.

Some say the Speed Control can be programmed to a spec level and everyone will be the same: False, again at this point batteries will make a huge difference. Good quality packs will be essential. In the end, a " Team Driver" will still have the advantage due to speed controller programming knowledge, access to unreleased technology and the ability to jump the regulator that restricts the amp flow. It is much easier to just tech a motor.

Brushless Performance: There will still be better motors than others due to manufacturing tolerances. Remember the price on a brushless motor when you have to replace it because it does not perform as claimed. Since there is no easy way to maintain and keep a brushless motor up to original spec (i.e. rebuild) it may be necessary to purchase new motors often at a very high price to keep up with your neighbor or racing rival.
Here's a novel approach. Why don't we answer to all the points in the Trinity atatement.
1.Ok..so we need more than 1 motor for the various performance classes. BIG DEAL. So do brushed motor users. Also, this is based on the assumption that the multi level ESC will not continue to be developed. The true lure of BL is in both performance and long term value. No brushes, no springs,no comm lathes, etc.
2. I don't think anybody said the BL was indestructible. I read the Novak ad again and I don't see anything that says indestructible. Shorting, debris and heat have taken the life of a few brushed motors I've had. That potential exists in EVERY electric motor.
3.Torque and RPM. Until you've seen graphs of engine performance, that statement doesn't hold water. Theres a big difference when we talk about USABLE torque/rpm vs. raw torque/rpm.
4.Maintenance. Novak specifically points to brushes, springs and comms in their ads. Ok, so we have to clean it.BIG DEAL. Bearings replaced ?? until I see where there's a rash of replacements going on, I can't place much faith in that statement. Zapping?? maybe for the absolute, best performance. You know...the kind maybe 1% of the total rc driver community needs. That reminds me...I guess I should have purchased a Zapper since apparently everybody but me must have one. Damage to can. DUH !!! If you're the type that drops his motor on the ground alot then you have a much bigger problem !!
5.Batteries. Good batts are good batts whether it's for BL or brushed. Until you prove where BL's needs are that different than brushed...the point is mute. Keep in mind that Batt technology is on the verge of a major change also. And guess what...GP won't be the big dog on the market anymore. Uh,Oh...what will Trinity do ???
6. "Team Drivers" will always be team drivers. SO WHAT !! If I had to compete against a team driver, I'd most likely be one too !!! and therefore I'd have the same "percs" available to me too.Yes, if we want to create a more level playing field in a given class, tech will have to rise to the occasion.
7. Manufacturing differences and performance. OK, thats very likely but doesn't the same "problem" exist in brushed motors?? And just HOW MUCH difference are we talking about?? I don't think anybody knows yet. A common sense approach would dictate that a more efficient, less complicated motor design would tend to be closer in performance from one unit to the next. Again, all I ask is ...prove it !!!

Last edited by Evoracer; 10-31-2003 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 10-31-2003, 06:11 PM   #21
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maybe what there trying to say is

if they (trinity) ever make a brushless motor it will be like that........... (crappy)

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Old 10-31-2003, 06:31 PM   #22
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Good to see that Trinity are keeping up their reputation of trashing anything they can't sell.
At least they are consistent....
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Old 10-31-2003, 11:22 PM   #23
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got that right!!!!
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Old 11-05-2003, 04:39 PM   #24
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Thumbs up

thumbs up to trinity for that
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:23 AM   #25
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in the next few years (at least 2), i don't think Trinity will loose so much in the competition market, they will still continue so sell their stock motors and modified, but the "bashing" market had already been took by Nitro (trinity seems to have an important position in the US) so what do they care about?selling less Speed Gems????they are importating 70% of the engine manufacturers...
I would now more care about BL Vs Nitro, last year in an interview someone from HPI said that if they have to release a RTR electric Savage it will be with a BL..sounds interesting (in my case I would choose the BL: faster, simpler, cleaner....)
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Old 11-06-2003, 01:57 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Claydoh
Right, in limited mode virtually any 6 cell pack could meet the limits of the Novak system. Now if other BL systems used the same 24k limit, you could have a class for that and batteries wouldn't matter too much. 3300's charged at 2 amps would yield full limited speed and runtimes in the 15-20 minute range. Now thats racing.
Does this apply to open mode(5800) @ all? What I mean is would I get the same performance from a 1.15 say to a 1.17+ ???
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:05 AM   #27
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Thumbs up POWER TO THE MASSES!

the castle gates have been broken down by the masses, and the king (trinity) is hidding in the tower! , his cowardly speach (trinitys brushless rant) has no effect on us! , we know he's lying! his stranglehold on our taxes (mass control of various inported products) is at an end!

let this nitro driver, electric convert, lead you to the tower!
lets slay the green moster with our hackers and novaks!
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Old 11-06-2003, 04:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: POWER TO THE MASSES!

Quote:
Originally posted by VenomWorldOrder
the castle gates have been broken down by the masses, and the king (trinity) is hidding in the tower! , his cowardly speach (trinitys brushless rant) has no effect on us! , we know he's lying! his stranglehold on our taxes (mass control of various inported products) is at an end!

let this nitro driver, electric convert, lead you to the tower!
lets slay the green moster with our hackers and novaks!
well said!
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Old 11-06-2003, 07:23 AM   #29
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I'm still kind of shocked that they'd have to put that up on their site...

We knew brushless motors were coming in the early 90's, it just took a while...

Shame on Trinity... What do they think they're God??? Hahaha...
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Old 11-06-2003, 12:44 PM   #30
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They may or may not think they're God, but it's very clear that they expect you to bow to their every whim, and believe every word they say.

This thread has restored my faith in the R/C Car market - I've thought for quite some time everyone were total sheep and believed every piece of propaganda bullcrap the big companies put out. I'm glad Trinity is being called to the carpet and questioned about this instead of everyone nodding in agreement and dozing off again...

Shawn
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