R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-06-2009, 10:42 PM   #1
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Unhappy Novak BL SS 5800 low power problem

It's a sensored bl ss 5800 motor esc combo. Never had any problems with it in the past.

The problem started when I took it out for the first time today and it just crawled away from me, even at full throttle. Up in the air it had a slightly better acceleration but nowhere near a tenth of what it used to be. The user mode has not been changed and the capacitor appears to be in good health. It shows the solid red light at neutral and the solid green at full throttle.

Posting this up and hoping someone has had experience with such a problem before. I'm very appreciative of any help on where to start looking, so I can get it back to the beast it used to be!

Thanks for looking
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 10:28 PM   #2
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

Did not get a chance to call Novak today, but took it out for a few minutes hoping for the best. I was thinking that possibly some water got in and was causing the problem, but, no changes in how it ran today. I did get decent throttle response at full throttle and only full throttle though. Any light throttle is non-existent and results in immediate locked rotor condition. Another thing I noticed is that the speed control was extremely HOT after about a minute of full throttle blipping, so I quickly gave up any hopes. The esc has never gotten over what I would guess to be around 100 degree F and today, in no time, I could not even touch it for more than a second!

What are the chances of this being a symptom of a bad power capacitor?
Phase out on the esc?
Should I just start looking for a new esc now?

Thanks in advance for any input
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 10:43 PM   #3
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Double check all your motor connections... main power wires from the ESC to the motor and the sensor wires.

Make sure everything's connected where it should be

blue to A
Yellow to B
Orange to C

Make sure the sensor harness is plugged in all the way as well and that none of the pins are comming out of the connector.
__________________
Steve Weiss
TEAM ASSOCIATED -- REEDY -- SANWA -- PROTOFORM -- 1UP Racing -- ActivRC -- P1 BRAND -- TEAM KINWALD -- TEAM STEVE INTERNATIONAL
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2009, 11:05 PM   #4
Tech Fanatic
 
penmark67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 791
Trader Rating: 14 (100%+)
Default Hmmmm..........

Have a look at the bearings , one may have locked up ?

I have a 5800 that has a cogging problem , i thought it was a bad sensor wire,changed it an still the same.
penmark67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-08-2009, 08:38 PM   #5
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

Steve, thanks for chiming in!

I did double and triple check everything you suggested. I even pulled the sensor harness off the esc to positively make sure they are making contact. The pins look good, clean, and straight on the esc side too. The phases are correct between the esc and the motor; and all the sensor wires are in the proper orientation according to the manual. All solder joints/tabs are clean and solid.

Next I pulled out the rotor hoping to find a big crack in it but no luck. Everything was clean inside and the bearings appear to be in good working order. Although, the motor is pretty noisy when free revving at low throttle and has a good amount of vibration. I'm new to the hobby but I'm pretty sure motors in good health are generally quiet and very smooth. I can't see these bearings causing any extreme loss of power at low revs though. Even in free air I get the locked rotor condition when light on the throttle. I need to give about a 50% blip first in order to get the rotor to spin at all and then slowly lower the throttle to keep it turning at low rpms. This motor used to be a beast at the slightest touch of the throttle.

I wish it's just bad bearings!

The main thing I've noticed is that whine is gone when starting the motor going forward. The whine is still there when going into reverse though.

Anything else I can look into? Is it at all possible for me to dig into the motor enough to run some continuity tests on the sensor harness? They look to be in great shape but that can be deceiving.

I took it out today and the same story; Blazing hot esc in less than a minute of runtime. It was 30F out and windy too!

I appreciate all the help so far, lets keep it coming please
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 02:40 PM   #6
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,491
Trader Rating: 114 (100%+)
Send a message via AIM to Valentin.H
Default

maybe try to take the esc apart and clean it out? same thing with the motor. if you try everything you can, i suggest you just send it to novak..i wouldnt trade in for an XBR though..those arent that great..
__________________
-valentin
www.csjunkies.com
Valentin.H is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:27 PM   #7
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

I'll try taking apart the esc next to see if it all looks good & clean in there.

I considered sending it in to novak, but after viewing their handling and testing fees; I figured it would be generally cheaper to just get another used combo or maybe just a esc. I can't imagine them doing much more for a discontinued esc than maybe a $10 test and then offering a trade in. It's very understandable for any business to do that; but maybe I'm wrong in thinking that?

I'd much rather get another SS 5800 used combo and possibly have a backup motor for the price of upgrading my esc.

Anyone in the nnj area with a SS esc willing to test out my motor?

Is there anyway I can test the sensors in the motor or look for a specific resistance value on the coils? I'm hoping there's a Novak diagnostics web page that I haven't found yet! I wish I had an oscilloscope to test the output of the esc.

I appreciate all the input though
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:39 PM   #8
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

Just noticed the green full throttle light blinking while in reverse. Could that mean anything?
It does stay solid while going forward.
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-09-2009, 04:40 PM   #9
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

FJ,

We do have some exchange programs available for the super sport ESC...

http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/web_options/index_esc.html

Look down towards the bottom in the discontinued section... probably around the same price as a used system but this way you'd get a fresh system and warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fj dubs View Post
I'll try taking apart the esc next to see if it all looks good & clean in there.

I considered sending it in to novak, but after viewing their handling and testing fees; I figured it would be generally cheaper to just get another used combo or maybe just a esc. I can't imagine them doing much more for a discontinued esc than maybe a $10 test and then offering a trade in. It's very understandable for any business to do that; but maybe I'm wrong in thinking that?

I'd much rather get another SS 5800 used combo and possibly have a backup motor for the price of upgrading my esc.

Anyone in the nnj area with a SS esc willing to test out my motor?

Is there anyway I can test the sensors in the motor or look for a specific resistance value on the coils? I'm hoping there's a Novak diagnostics web page that I haven't found yet! I wish I had an oscilloscope to test the output of the esc.

I appreciate all the input though
__________________
Steve Weiss
TEAM ASSOCIATED -- REEDY -- SANWA -- PROTOFORM -- 1UP Racing -- ActivRC -- P1 BRAND -- TEAM KINWALD -- TEAM STEVE INTERNATIONAL
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2009, 09:49 PM   #10
Tech Initiate
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Nj
Posts: 38
Trader Rating: 5 (86%+)
Default

So is this just a subtle way of telling me that the problem most likely lies in the esc and not the motor?

I never expected to get help from a Novak staffer; so I am very appreciative of that! The customer service seems very promising from Novak and is greatly swaying my decision on what to do next.
fj dubs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-12-2009, 09:09 AM   #11
The Evicerator
R/C Tech Elite Subscriber
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 4,142
Default

Fj,

It is sometimes very difficult to diagnose a problem with a brushless system without seeing it due to the fact that the motor and esc work *together* to work properly. So there's a chance that there could be something wrong with the motor that's causing this problem.

Usually when someone has some type of problem, we encourage them to send both the motor and the esc in so that we can thoroughly test both components.

Don't worry though, say you send both units in and there's nothing wrong with one of them, you will not get charged that $25 "testing" fee for it that you mentioned seeing earlier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fj dubs View Post
So is this just a subtle way of telling me that the problem most likely lies in the esc and not the motor?

I never expected to get help from a Novak staffer; so I am very appreciative of that! The customer service seems very promising from Novak and is greatly swaying my decision on what to do next.
__________________
Steve Weiss
TEAM ASSOCIATED -- REEDY -- SANWA -- PROTOFORM -- 1UP Racing -- ActivRC -- P1 BRAND -- TEAM KINWALD -- TEAM STEVE INTERNATIONAL
Steve Weiss is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 03:48 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net