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Old 08-28-2002, 08:46 PM   #346
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yeah, i only used part of it...

i took out the oneway after the first time i drove that thing... too hard to drive with it (i've only been racing since last october)...the only other car i've owned is a TL01. anyway, about the 1 degree toe block...is that the stock one? it wiggles a bit so when i check the toe it could be 1 or0 toe in out back... and yeah i did just compensate for weight by adding more preload to level out the chassis. before i did that though, i did check for tweak and it didn't have any... it was perfect...tires lifted at same time and went down at same time.... as far as the setup for the one way, i can see where the understeer would be very good.... but since i have the front diff, i need a completely different setup huh?

so maybe i should add 2mm spacers under the front and rear blocks on both ends... thereby leaving even blocks and add more caster...like to 9 up front....and i thought the sway bars are mostly for smooth surfaces...my track aint even close to being "smooth" and it didnt bottom out(no scratches on the chassis) but i think you meant the shocks right.
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Old 08-29-2002, 09:32 AM   #347
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The stock block is 0 degree. That is one of the main flaws of the car. By using the 414M blocks, you can dial in 1,2 etc degree of rear toe. This will hook the rear a lot better under acceleration. I would leave the caster low. This will increase your turn-in while calming down the car on power. Raising the roll centers with the lower arms is a good idea though
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Old 09-03-2002, 06:11 AM   #348
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hey RUF, how'd the regional race go? I couldn't make it out there cuz most of the club down here went to a san antonio nitro touring race.
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Old 09-03-2002, 08:46 AM   #349
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The regionals went GREAT! Smooth as silk. Good turnout. I think everyone had a great time. I was tired as heck though... and I didn't even RACE!

I've absorbed my partner's spare TBEVO2 and started tinkering with it in earnest now. Reworked the drivetrain, feels much looser now. I think it's the new metal-shielded bearings that are slowing the car down. The old Tamiya blue seals would take some time to break in, but they were FAST! These new ones seem to have a lot of heavy grease packed in. I got the car down to 54.5oz without transponder. Will have to start using titanium screws to get that extra ounce off. Still working on the setup. The car is fine until transition. I can't seem to get the rear end to plant under power in the chicanes. I think my spring rates are close, time to start playing with shock oil.
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Old 09-03-2002, 11:33 AM   #350
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i know what you mean ...fine until transition... :P well, i tried it the same way as i had mentioned above on blown bumpy asphalt .... talk about your weird handling.... straight aways are nice and fast, but you hit the brakes and the rear end would instantly come around, hit the throttle and it would go in the direction pointed 4wheel driftin but would understeer like crazy while doing so.... snap oversteer with monster understeer at the same time? this is just messed up... i got used to drivin it like that for the length of the race... its not too bad i guess, gotta time it just right to make the turn fast but it understeer to much after to make it thru transition section quickly. I think i'm gonna go with a base setup and go from there.... oh and the thicker the oil, the more it oversteers and chirps the tires.( 30wt seems to get the best results.)

i got front and rear ball diffs, so lets start with base settings as:

front 30wt, red, middle hole/outer, -1camber, 0toe, hingepins flat.
rear 30wt, red, middle hole/outer, -1camber,2 toe in, hinges flat.
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Old 09-03-2002, 12:15 PM   #351
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Frankly, that response makes perfect sense. Off power oversteer and onpower understeer go hand in hand. I would try stiffening up your front roll or softening the rear. Dial in more throttle at neutral (no drag brake). How are you getting 2 degrees of rear toe? I've been trying to get that, I've gotten close with the 414M 2-dot block. That will definitely tack your rear end down on throttle.

My problem is a little different. In a single corner, the car is fine. When confronted with a left-right sequence or the like, the diff appears to be unloading and the rear just starts wandering. The thing is that you can get on it pretty hard coming out of a single corner, but if that involves a direction change, then the stability just goes out the window. I have a feeling that I'm actually picking up tires and spinning the diff. I can hear it I think.
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Old 09-03-2002, 05:35 PM   #352
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Hey thats exactly what i did... wow! i added creep to counter it just a bit. as far as the rear toe in... I dont have 2toein yet...i ordered the 414M rear block yesterday. right now i still running the zero toe in rear blocks(thats probably why the rear end swings out so much) I have a feeling that this car is just for smooth long turns... it can do that beautifally! sunday we did an exhibition at the South Texas Scorcher...we built a temporary track and blew the pebble out... it had a C section at the end with the straight at the end of it. well, i could go into the C and into the straight by just holding the wheel at a certain position without the car bobbing or nuthing.... just smooth sweeper, but come the S section I'd spin out(thats cuz i got the front diff too) and then understeer into every other corner.... oh well, my only conselation is that i raced my evo2 with the nitro guys and was woopin on them for 3 laps until one of them T-boned me...messed up my receiver too. but i snapped the case back on and went after em and i caught up too. what a car... imagine if we EVER get it dialed....
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Old 09-04-2002, 01:34 AM   #353
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Default eureka!!!

I've got it. At least for my track and this current layout.

This setup is a total package. Modify as you wish. Any portion of it taken in and of itself can make your car suck.

Misc:
Body: Protoform Dodge Stratus 2.0
Tires: Take Off CS-32R preglued, Paragon GFX
Motor: P2K-4070 @ 34/88 (may try 35/88 with 767's)
Weight: 54.1oz w/o transponder, balance 50/50 L/R (w/trans), 45/55 F/R
Notes: Used aluminum ballstuds everywhere. Used strapping tape instead of battery box. Using body clips instead of top plate to hold down bumper. Blew out all grease in bearings and re-oiled them.

Front:
Spring: Tamiya White
Oil: 30WT
Piston: 2-hole white
No swaybar, no rebound sponge
Outer hole bottom, outer hole top

Arms full rearward
No spacers under inner upper link
3mm/5mm F/R spacer under hingepin blocks (shave gearbox DEEP. There's a hole now... oops)
5mm ride height, 7mm droop height (NOT TC3 gauge)

Notes: Shave front of steering rack to clear rear hingepin block
TA04 steering knuckles C1L/C2R w/2mm spacer under rack ballstud to fix bumpsteer (also have to use longer turnbuckles)

Rear:
Spring: Tamiya Blue
Oil: 30WT
Piston: 2-hole white
No swaybar, no rebound sponge
Outer hole bottom, #3 hole top

Arms full rearward, shave 2.5mm from back of arm to move even further rearward (overall WB=261mm)
3.5mm spacer under inner upper link, outer hole on hub
6.5mm/4.5mm F/R spacer under hingepin blocks (shave rear of aluminum bulkhead)
2-dot rear hingepin block
5.5mm ride height, 9mm droop height (NOT TC3 gauge)

Notes: Make sure you install the setscrew in the rear hub carriers. The rear toe will not be consistent otherwise.

Make sure you keep your CVD's and outdrives well greased and your diff smooth. Also check your one-way barrels often. I had one go out on me. Can't wait for that new 2-bearing unit. The only thing I could play with right now is shock oil and maybe swaybars, but I'm pretty happy with the car as it is. The added ride height and rear droop helped keep the rear planted during transition. There is a LOT of rear droop, the rear springs should have about 2-3mm of free travel.

The car is pivoting well and carrying good corner speed. It is stable under acceleration but still turns well on exit. Finally cured the unloading diff phenomenon during L/R transitions. I started with Surikarn's 414M setup and slowly started modifying from there. Toward the end, I was drawing a lot of roll-stiffness and geometry ideas from my friend's X-Ray Evo2 with the new hubs. That's when I started playing with the droop a lot. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the car. We'll see how she does on Thursday. I'll try to put up some pics tomorrow.
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Last edited by ruf; 09-04-2002 at 01:37 AM.
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Old 09-04-2002, 09:23 PM   #354
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Try TC3 gold springs in the front for a little more on-power steering.
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Old 09-07-2002, 04:46 PM   #355
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hey ruf, you got any pics? and where can i get spacers?
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:54 PM   #356
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Hi,
I have a suggestion if you wanna lightened your tb evo2.
Here is some suggetsion:
1. Change all those brass(heavy duty) ball ends to aluminium ones. it makes a hell lot of difference in weight. trust, i did it and it shave off at least 45grams. Tamiya has those aluminium ball ends but currently, i dun have the item number.

One question for you guys,
What is the effect of taking off the centre aluminium piece that hold the bottom and top chassis deck ? any idea ? cos it feels the same to me. What do you guys think ?

You guys might wish to get the TB EVO2 rear toes in setting set from Tamiya. The toes in set range from 1.5,2,2.5 and 3 degree. It also comes with the front and rear swaybar set of soft, med and hard. It is good if you run mod motor. easier to set the car.

Has anyone ever tried the carbon shaft with a mod motor ? how long can it hold ? I heard it is quite fragile. I am still experimenting on the chassis set up for carpet though. any idea ?
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Old 09-08-2002, 10:55 PM   #357
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One more thing, Tamiya has come up with the alum steering arm set. it is good and worth the investment.
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:41 PM   #358
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That steering rack definitely looks nice. The new arms should be a lot stiffer as well. As for the toe-in blocks, I just use the 414M ones. And I do use the aluminum ballstuds (stolen off my old TA03) and the new blue aluminum ones for the suspension mounts. Even though the stock ones are listed as "alum", I've found that the blue ones are MUCH lighter. The new aluminum spring retainers are heavier though.

No pics yet. Keep forgetting.

As for the car, I've only got a few more things I can try before I give up on it. It handles fine. I've done just about everything I can on it. But I just set up a 414M for my friend and I could BARELY catch him (even though I'm usually much faster). I know that with the car in it's current state, I cannot even post within 0.5s of the fastest lap. I will try new tires. If that doesn't work, then I will try the new 414M setup that I used. Then byebye.

I've gotten the car down to 50/50 F/R. TC3 red spring outside in front, gold middle in rear.
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Old 09-08-2002, 11:56 PM   #359
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Carbon shaft delaminates in a few runs with mod. Stick with the aluminum one. It's not much heavier. The center post adds a little more chassis stiffness but not much.

For hingepin block spacers, I use HPI plastic shock parts spacers or Losi suspension spacers. The HPI come in 2,3,5mm. The Losi are standard, but they are about 2.5 and 3.5mm. When you space your blocks up that high you have to check them often to make sure they don't shift and give your arms play. The countersunk screws in the chassis should be flat. They can shift to an angle though.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:09 AM   #360
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Allright, look like a lot of people are giving up on the car. Hmmm .... I wonder why. Anyway, I have changed the arms to the hardened ones which works much better than the original ones as it is much stiffer. Anyway, the centre alum piece does not really make a difference whether with or without it cos the chassis is still stiff. Anyone ever run this car on carpet b4 ? Any tips ?
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