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Old 10-22-2003, 10:54 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by futureal
First, bandwidth is the amount of data being transferred from this site to other computers on the internet. So each time you visit the page, the amount of data transferred to your computer is added to the total for the month. Text is compressed on-the-fly and thus is not that bad, but the graphics, attachments, photos and that sort of thing take up an awful lot.
that's one reason I host my own images - so I don't use YOUR bandwidth for them (also so I can actually embed them in the post. . .nicer than having to click on each of them individually)
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Old 10-22-2003, 10:54 AM   #62
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boomer- i like that idea, it seems to work for lots of other places, of it works, why not?
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Old 10-22-2003, 03:02 PM   #63
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Thanks for all the ideas, guys. Really busy week for me right now and I hope to respond to them all soon.

I'd like to reiterate a couple of things:

1) There will not be any pop ups.

2) There will not be a forced subscription model. Non-paying members will always, at the very least, be able to view threads, reply to them and create them in, at the very least, most forums.

3) If some sort of subscription access does go into effect, it will be (somewhat akin to Frank's suggestions) opening up new areas of the site and new functionality to paying members. I have plenty of cool ideas for things that could make this well worth it... not to mention knowing that you are helping the site stay afloat.

Thanks!
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Old 10-22-2003, 03:09 PM   #64
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How about adding to the "SuperDeluxe" account, a rctech.net email addy? Can you feel the luv?!
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Old 10-22-2003, 03:17 PM   #65
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boomer there aint no one here going to spend 50 dollars on a subscription thats crazy! and even for most 20o is about pushing it!
any where between 10 and 15 bucks for the year should be fine
its seems to me the problem futureal is having is with the manufacture reeping benifits from the posts. what shane should
consintrate on is making them pay more
and or for staring thier own thread so they can advertize all they want.
a flat fee for a banner and extra for their own thread.
and for everybody else either a donation or 10.00 for the year. i am sure we can all afford that as for the lurks all they can do is view and not post .
make the manufactures pay we put enough mony in their pockets its about time they float the bill and help shane because they are the ones making the money off his hide!
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Old 10-22-2003, 03:30 PM   #66
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I would pay $50 per year. I know several others who would, and likely Frank would too.

It's not for general access - that would be free.
It's for BONUS things, like custom avatars, little things. Basically, it's giving some little bonus things for those who, bluntly, donate.

You could say, right now, "why should I donate and still get only the same things that Joe Bloe does when HE doesn't?"

You do find people like me, who will donate. Shoot, I play on a dedicated DoD server and required dues is $5 - I pay closer to $50, just because I like to play and $5 from each won't make the payments.

This place is the same. It's worth some donation (and I'll be donating right after payday. . .) but it would be nice to get some little "perks" with that donation.

Really, that's all it is.



BTW - this subscription model has worked on other sites (namely arstechnica.com, for example).
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Old 10-22-2003, 03:59 PM   #67
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come on man i am not saying no pay but for heavens sake you and a few will pay 50 bucks but there are more people here then the few you are speaking for are not willing. a roar member ship is 30 bucks and if anybody else here races in a club its another 30 bucks plus throw in there any race entries for the big races. that adds up.
if you are paying that for an engineering site thats great for you but they also may not have as many members and pluss the things you guy post about about may be more elaborate because of the subject you guys discuss there they maybe more technical in nature of course here we are playing with toy cars even full scale forums are donation based. i diagree with all the guys that want to make this into a pay for speciall feature foremat we aint looking for dates and friendly get togethers lol. here we are talking about toy cars that we pay out the nose to have fun with LET THE MANUFACTURES PAY FOR THIS STUFF THEY MAKE ALL THE MONEY!
why should i suffer or anybody else for the matter because there are guys here that advertise using posts, make those guys pay so the post stays open.
and if they dont pay lock it.
if shane wants to turn this into a money making buisness fine then just state that is what he wants remember boomer maybe 5 to 10 % of the members here are the only ones willing to pay the 50 bucks . pluss once you start charging then the foremat changes and people will go elswere i am sure if shane sets up a pole in the home page and sets up the price ranges for what people are willing to pay i guarentee you
that the majority will say $10.00 dollars is perfect and no one is speciall.
we live in a society were people are treated differently because of their monetary stature lets leave that out of this forum and give everyone equall access to what ever features we have for a flat fee of $ 10.00 and go after the manufactures who basically are the ones making the real profits here .
on this. have a great day.
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Last edited by speedxl; 10-22-2003 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 10-22-2003, 05:30 PM   #68
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Btw - DoD = Half Life Day of Defeat. Game server. We play games on it. Nothing more technical than shooting your opponent in the head with an MP40. . .

I disagree with you that those manufacturers that advertise here make tons of money. Perhaps Horizon, AE, Yok, etc. make good money - no argument there, but they don't advertise here. How about Speedtech, Fukuyama, BMI - these are the little guys that don't have enough volume to make much. . .

And, I'm not saying that everyone has to pay $50/year. I'm not even necessarily advocating $50/year or $5/month. Those were just numbers - it could easily be $10/year ($2/month) for first level subscription and $20/year ($3/month) for "premier" or whatever level subscription.

I actually let my ROAR membership drop. I wasn't getting anything for my $30 "donation" - if I'm going to donate money, on a regular basis (yearly/monthly) I would like to see something for it, recognition, trivial "bonuses" or "features" or something.

I don't think that anyone's trying to make anyone pay for anything. Shane's said that he doesn't want to make anyone sacrifice for "free" level. I'm in agreement with that.

I also don't think he's trying to make money on this. I know how expensive bandwidth is, how much servers cost and how much this site has grown - I was in very early (and was VERY surprised to actually get Boomer. . .usually I can't) and the traffic has grown tremendously. The number of pictures attached to posts has grown tremendously as well, and THAT costs money (much more bandwidth as was explained earlier - it's one reason why I host any pics I post. . .)

I think he's trying to break even.

So - I don't think he's going to get enough out of banner ads. Banner ads are not as effective as they used to be - people ignore them. I don't think he's going to solve the problem of commercial issues happening in non-commercial threads and selling commercial forums isn't going to make up the difference, especially with commercial things going on in non-commercial areas. How does he make it up?

You'll get resentment if you do the "everyone's equal" thing with some paying and most not. That's the way it goes. That's nature. But if we can get the things that go with the donation/payment to be more or less "trivial" things, and the real MEAT of this site is still left free, what's the difference?
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Old 10-22-2003, 06:08 PM   #69
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Not to ask somthing that is not my business, but about how much a month will be neede to break even?
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Old 10-22-2003, 06:35 PM   #70
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Boomer & speedxl;

Really BOTH of you have made valid points.

I for one have no problem making (another) substantial donation for what I believe to be the very BEST r/c Car information source on the net.

BUT, I also believe that People involved in the commercial aspect of the hobby, should be required to pay for their advertising.

Even the "Free Ads" Magazines, charge their commercial customers for the Ads, and the consumer has to pay a small amount for a copy of the Magazine at the store.

I'm sure that something similar could also work for online information source.

Everything comes at a price.

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Old 10-22-2003, 10:46 PM   #71
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Intermission: It's tough to say, because of the site's growth and variable data transfer. Based on the growth right now, I am going to need a second server soon. I am estimating that before before the middle of next year, it will be somewhere between $700 and $1000 a month. It has already touched the low end of that before, though not always. And that doesn't even count the time I put into it.

Regarding subscriptions, I don't think $50 a year it outrageous. Take a look at this hobby we're in. How can you say $50 is too much for a year's worth of info when you spend $50 on tires every few weeks? haha

I'm not saying that's how much it's going to be -- haven't really thought about that -- but I'm just saying!
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Old 10-23-2003, 10:10 AM   #72
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I don't think it's a lot either, but then if, as both Frank and I've suggested, we use a tiered subscription system, which is not uncommon, there can be free, $10/year, $20/year or whatever.

Pops - Shane said that he has the commercial people pay - they pay for a dedicated forum area and for banner space. It's not making enough money to break even. Shoot, if it was me, eventually I would get tired of dedicating time and money to something that just doesn't break even. . .how long has this board been going and it is still losing money? I'm actually surprised it's made it this far. . .

I agree with you that "everything has its price" - but the priority seemed to be placed on keeping at least basic access (post/read/create) free. I think that's entirely appropriate and necessary for the life of this thing.
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Old 10-23-2003, 10:36 AM   #73
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Now that I know how much it costs, I would definatly pay 10 or even 20 dollars a year for a subscription to this site.
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Old 10-23-2003, 11:24 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boomer
Pops - Shane said that he has the commercial people pay - they pay for a dedicated forum area and for banner space. It's not making enough money to break even. Shoot, if it was me, eventually I would get tired of dedicating time and money to something that just doesn't break even. . .how long has this board been going and it is still losing money? I'm actually surprised it's made it this far. . .
I think I'm really just a sucker.

People have been telling me for the last year or so that I should be making a killing of this site, and many have approached me for some sort of exclusive deal or online retail deal, or that sort of thing. To me it is still just a hobby and something I like to do, although I have to admit it is to the point where I would like to be making even a small amount off of the site. You're right that paying the difference some months is really a drag!

But on the other hand, I have learned a lot from this place, both from the server/web side and from the R/C side. And you can't put a price on knowledge, right? Well, at least not if you're a University, anyway.
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Old 10-23-2003, 11:47 AM   #75
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I would definitely be willing to pay as much as $25 a year for this site. There is an incredible amount of information to be found here. I do, however, think that $50 a year is too high. Why?

Well, there are alternatives available to find the same information. Granted, they're not as nice as RCTech, but they'll do... and, they're free.

Things happen in public message forums, that are annoying as (&**, but can't be controlled. Your trolls lurk around posting incindiary comments and topics, which almost always bring a swarm of, 'you're full of crap' replies which waste bandwidth. Then, you have the guy who feels he has to have large, unnecessary jpg/gif/png images in his signature (not so much here, but check out http://www.ntfs.org to see what I mean.) You've got the posters who post replies equivilent to an "amen," or "I agree" or "that sucks," or "You've got private mail. (Nothing more annoying to me than getting an email notification that there's a reply in a thread I'm following, only to follow the link and see "YGPM." Argh! But, I digress.) The replies offer little to the pertinence of the thread, and again, waste bandwidth. Wasted bandwidth's costs get passed onto the users

There's also the issue of advertising. I'm of the opinion that the owner of the site should make money off of advertising, but there's a fine line between a company "pimping their wares" and a user saying, "Hey, I use a motor by Team _____ and it's really strong. Check 'em out." The suggestion has been made to eliminate the ability of posters to insert URL's into their messages, but I don't think that's a good idea. Of course, playing the Devil's advocate, if someone's too lazy to go to Google and do a search for "Team ___'s" website, then maybe they don't care about that product anyway. I can see both sides to this argument.

I think the idea of a subscription is a good one. Websites take alot of time and money to keep going, and trust me, I've been there. I ran a website for a band, that didn't have NEAR the traffic this one does, and it's time consuming and expensive. Even though this is Futureal's hobby, he shouldn't be expected to bear the brunt of the costs for the site. On the other hand, as a user, I'd be miffed if I'm paying a subscription to a site to help cover it's bandwidth only to see tons of wasted bandwidth being used for any of the above reasons. How do you fix that? I dunno - perhaps strict moderating of message areas could help, but then you introduce the problem of finding reliable people to effectively volunteer their time to be moderators. Even if you comp'd them a subscription, there will quickly come a point where the value of the subscription is eclipsed by the time spent moderating.

Just my two cents, and I apologize for the ramblings.

Rob
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