Should Stock Brushed Motors go away in higher level events?
12-22-2008, 01:07 PM
#31
I am for creating seperate events for brushed and brushless if it ment the quality of racing was better.
Most racers want to go to brushless, but the brushed guys deserve a motor builder championship race. If it wasn't for brushed motors, we would still be holding down-hill pine wood derbys.
Most racers want to go to brushless, but the brushed guys deserve a motor builder championship race. If it wasn't for brushed motors, we would still be holding down-hill pine wood derbys.
12-22-2008, 01:11 PM
#32
Im not convinced that a brushed motor isn't faster under some circumstances so I say yes to even the playing field. Though I haven't been racing at higher level ROAR events so not sure my vote counts.
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
#33
Lets go all brushless so we don't have to dig out our brushed stuff just for nats and so on.
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
#34
Tech Fanatic
Although I am not a ROAR member, I hope this view might help...
Don't kill BR motors, let them fall by the wayside. BL has significantly increased the cost of racing, and it really isn't Stock racing any more. With adjustable motor timing, and adjustable software, it is more difficult now to get the best from your motor than it ever was, and twice the price.
We already see people with laptops tuning speedos, and that includes the updating of speedo software by manufacturers at big events. It seems to me that eventually there will be a call for a cheaper form of racing. Whatever you decide to run for your big meetings, the fact remains that a lot of Clubs use the National Association's Rules for their Club racing. If you kill off BR motors, they will feel obliged to follow suit, so raising costs to their drivers.
By all means set your Regional and National classes for whatever you feel is appropriate. But don't kill off the Stock and Spec motor lists and approval systems, for the sake of your Clubs. Keep the lists alive, allow new approvals, and eventually there will be no supply of motors on the list. The lists can quietly be retired.
In the current environment, National Associations need to be aware that what they have in their Rules is used by Clubs, and so to send a message that there is now no lower-cost alternative to BL is probably not good for their future or, ultimately, ROAR's. HTH
Don't kill BR motors, let them fall by the wayside. BL has significantly increased the cost of racing, and it really isn't Stock racing any more. With adjustable motor timing, and adjustable software, it is more difficult now to get the best from your motor than it ever was, and twice the price.
We already see people with laptops tuning speedos, and that includes the updating of speedo software by manufacturers at big events. It seems to me that eventually there will be a call for a cheaper form of racing. Whatever you decide to run for your big meetings, the fact remains that a lot of Clubs use the National Association's Rules for their Club racing. If you kill off BR motors, they will feel obliged to follow suit, so raising costs to their drivers.
By all means set your Regional and National classes for whatever you feel is appropriate. But don't kill off the Stock and Spec motor lists and approval systems, for the sake of your Clubs. Keep the lists alive, allow new approvals, and eventually there will be no supply of motors on the list. The lists can quietly be retired.
In the current environment, National Associations need to be aware that what they have in their Rules is used by Clubs, and so to send a message that there is now no lower-cost alternative to BL is probably not good for their future or, ultimately, ROAR's. HTH
12-22-2008, 01:54 PM
#35
As far as the big races are concerned the choice has been made.
17.5 stock onroad races:
1)IIC (Vegas)
2)Cleveland
3)Halloween race (as part of the Grand Slam series around here)
4)Snowbirds
5)Novak Race
17.5/27 turn stock onroad races:
1)ROAR nationals
2)???
Fact is, most of us have already made the investment in brushless. IMO, Nats should be 17.5 without handout motors. With the cost of 17.5 motors we don't need to be buying an extra motor at each race.
Just tech the winds/rotors. Mark them (in a place that makes sense) and go racing. Just like brushed used to be. Just do some random techs on some of the cars to keep the racers honest.
I'm running mod at Nats so it doesn't really matter to me but with pretty much all th ebig races running brushless it makes sense for ROAR nats to be brushless.
17.5 stock onroad races:
1)IIC (Vegas)
2)Cleveland
3)Halloween race (as part of the Grand Slam series around here)
4)Snowbirds
5)Novak Race
17.5/27 turn stock onroad races:
1)ROAR nationals
2)???
Fact is, most of us have already made the investment in brushless. IMO, Nats should be 17.5 without handout motors. With the cost of 17.5 motors we don't need to be buying an extra motor at each race.
Just tech the winds/rotors. Mark them (in a place that makes sense) and go racing. Just like brushed used to be. Just do some random techs on some of the cars to keep the racers honest.
I'm running mod at Nats so it doesn't really matter to me but with pretty much all th ebig races running brushless it makes sense for ROAR nats to be brushless.
12-22-2008, 02:03 PM
#36
Although I am not a ROAR member, I hope this view might help...
Don't kill BR motors, let them fall by the wayside. BL has significantly increased the cost of racing, and it really isn't Stock racing any more. With adjustable motor timing, and adjustable software, it is more difficult now to get the best from your motor than it ever was, and twice the price.
We already see people with laptops tuning speedos, and that includes the updating of speedo software by manufacturers at big events. It seems to me that eventually there will be a call for a cheaper form of racing. Whatever you decide to run for your big meetings, the fact remains that a lot of Clubs use the National Association's Rules for their Club racing. If you kill off BR motors, they will feel obliged to follow suit, so raising costs to their drivers.
By all means set your Regional and National classes for whatever you feel is appropriate. But don't kill off the Stock and Spec motor lists and approval systems, for the sake of your Clubs. Keep the lists alive, allow new approvals, and eventually there will be no supply of motors on the list. The lists can quietly be retired.
In the current environment, National Associations need to be aware that what they have in their Rules is used by Clubs, and so to send a message that there is now no lower-cost alternative to BL is probably not good for their future or, ultimately, ROAR's. HTH
Don't kill BR motors, let them fall by the wayside. BL has significantly increased the cost of racing, and it really isn't Stock racing any more. With adjustable motor timing, and adjustable software, it is more difficult now to get the best from your motor than it ever was, and twice the price.
We already see people with laptops tuning speedos, and that includes the updating of speedo software by manufacturers at big events. It seems to me that eventually there will be a call for a cheaper form of racing. Whatever you decide to run for your big meetings, the fact remains that a lot of Clubs use the National Association's Rules for their Club racing. If you kill off BR motors, they will feel obliged to follow suit, so raising costs to their drivers.
By all means set your Regional and National classes for whatever you feel is appropriate. But don't kill off the Stock and Spec motor lists and approval systems, for the sake of your Clubs. Keep the lists alive, allow new approvals, and eventually there will be no supply of motors on the list. The lists can quietly be retired.
In the current environment, National Associations need to be aware that what they have in their Rules is used by Clubs, and so to send a message that there is now no lower-cost alternative to BL is probably not good for their future or, ultimately, ROAR's. HTH
12-22-2008, 02:22 PM
#38
Tech Regular
cant really understand the word increased costs in brushless at all..
ok, you have to pay $200-300 for a brushless system BUT!
the motor will last for a long time, say 2 years for example (probably alot longer if you just are keeping the motor in good shape)
HOW MUCH ARE YOU SPENDING ON MOTORS, BRUSHES, BRUSHSPRINGS ETC IN 2 YEARS?
probably ALOT more... brushless has a high starting price, but it will save you money in the long run! pretty simple..
and you dont have to spend the time with cutting the com, tune the motor etc..
alot of people has tuned their speedos and stuff with laptop for years, its not a new thing just because of brushless..
ok, you have to pay $200-300 for a brushless system BUT!
the motor will last for a long time, say 2 years for example (probably alot longer if you just are keeping the motor in good shape)
HOW MUCH ARE YOU SPENDING ON MOTORS, BRUSHES, BRUSHSPRINGS ETC IN 2 YEARS?
probably ALOT more... brushless has a high starting price, but it will save you money in the long run! pretty simple..
and you dont have to spend the time with cutting the com, tune the motor etc..
alot of people has tuned their speedos and stuff with laptop for years, its not a new thing just because of brushless..
12-22-2008, 02:25 PM
#39
Tech Regular
also.. a new bl motor is priced something $50-100.. how much is a brushed stock motor costing under its lifetime with brushes etc??? calculate that!
12-22-2008, 03:25 PM
#41
Dawn,
Here's an idea...
The 'BRUSHED STOCK NATIONALS'
There MAY be a class of racer who hasn't decided to go to the BRUSHLESS ease...and may want their OWN "Special Event"
Two Classes
"HANDOUT" -- for the less experienced
"OPEN" -- using Legal motors supplied by the actual racers...
Try it ONCE -- PICK a track and racing venue and give it a try...
Who knows...as a 'stand alone' event it may be HUGE!
Here's an idea...
The 'BRUSHED STOCK NATIONALS'
There MAY be a class of racer who hasn't decided to go to the BRUSHLESS ease...and may want their OWN "Special Event"
Two Classes
"HANDOUT" -- for the less experienced
"OPEN" -- using Legal motors supplied by the actual racers...
Try it ONCE -- PICK a track and racing venue and give it a try...
Who knows...as a 'stand alone' event it may be HUGE!
Seriously, with all those brushed motor cases, dynos and lathes sitting around in people's basements that could be an interesting event. If the event is well promoted and you have interesting incentives you could attract a good crowd I'm sure.
Plus new stock motors can be had for dirt cheap nowadays, same can be said for old speedos like keyence's, Quantum's and GTX's for like 50 to 60$ used.
12-22-2008, 04:13 PM
#43
I don't think there's a need to "make" brushed go away. They will fade away for the same reasons cassette tapes did, convenience and forward progression. If people choose to use them, that's their choice. But when your competition has more time to work on setup, socialize, and sleep because they had a few less things to do.
12-22-2008, 04:15 PM
#44
McSmooth.... never noticed that rule was lacking such wording... I'll get that adjusted.
Ok.. so brushed motors are dead and nobody has a problem with the idea that a sanctioning body is going to be the one to put the final knife in its soul? Would love to hear from some motor tuners.. OEM's and MFG's..??
Ok.. so brushed motors are dead and nobody has a problem with the idea that a sanctioning body is going to be the one to put the final knife in its soul? Would love to hear from some motor tuners.. OEM's and MFG's..??
EA
12-22-2008, 04:33 PM
#45
there is already a place for brushed motors. It is called VINTAGE.