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Old 12-29-2008, 12:57 PM   #121
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Oh Phil I forgot to add Alex will let me call a few races the next time you're there.
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Old 12-29-2008, 03:51 PM   #122
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I don't get why the weight limit should be changed regarless of what you run. If you want to run lipo, add some weight, if you want to run Mimh, figure out a way to go on a diet. Geez, why should a class weight minimum be changed just because new technology brings new lighter equipment? At some point, the cars will handle like crap if they are too light anyway. One of the guys running lipo/13.5 at home said that he's adding weight to get the car to drive right again.

Next thing you know, we will see flexi-chassis coming back to create grip because the cars weigh too little or worse, a bunch of new ultra soft tire compounds that wear quickly. Buy a new set of triple white rears and chartreuce fronts, cut them down to 43mm/40mm and get 2 runs out of them. Great, $40/day for club racing on tires alone. Is'nt this what hurt touring cars?

ROAR and the manufacturers should be figuring out a way to make racing more affordable so more will stay in it and new people are more attracted to get in. The speed of the cars and the top 10 drivers at big events will have a way of working themselves out no matter what the rules are. If you look at the response from Eli Ezro above, he could care less what the weight is as he's one of the fast guys that will work his ass off to figure out what works best within the rules, which is the way it should be. Invariably, it's not the fast guys whining about the rules.

If ROAR has deemed the 17.5 as the "stock" motor of the future, so be it. Run one with lipo or Nimh if you want. Just make sure you make the current weight minimum. My money will be on the brushed/Nimh combo, but that's for a different discussion.
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Old 12-29-2008, 04:24 PM   #123
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I'm on the same page as Eli. The main reason I've been following this thread is because the upcoming ROAR nats in Cleveland.

Personaly, I would like to see the weight rule increased so I only have to bring brushless equipment. If the rule is left at 794, then I will end up bringing two sets of equipment and having to try both to see which will be faster. Since most races are brushless only now, I've got rid of most of my brushed equipment. But either way, i will still enjoy myself.

I believe Dawn said a couple pages back that the host track can request a rule change just for the single event. If thats the case, I guess it doesn't matter if the ROAR rule is changed. I should just ask chicky and the guys at The Gate how they feel about it.

I'd also like to say that I agree with what Sean Cochran said a couple pages back. Enforcing an easily achievable minimum weight can be a big money saver in all forms of racing. It can get expensive to try to make a car light. Or, you end up sacrificing durability to make your car light. I'd like to run at 865 as long as we're still running NiMh.
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Last edited by tfirsching; 12-29-2008 at 06:18 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:22 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by JACK HAMMER View Post
wow dave you just got off the phone with me asking me about t bar lipo and you said my car looks like a bucket of assholes.......................................... .................rough............................ .................................................. .................................................. .............................................i will have the bucket at the track sunday............................................ .................................................. .............
And no doubt you'll kick my butt with it... but you gotta admit it IS one homely looking thing with the body off... almost reminded me of my first ex wife when she got undressed...

When you first walked over with it two weeks ago and showed it to me I think I was too taken aback by the looks to even realize what it was...
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:30 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by tfirsching View Post
I'm on the same page as Eli. The main reason I've been following this thread is because the upcoming ROAR nats in Cleveland.

Personaly, I would like to see the wait rule increased so I only have to bring brushless equipment. If the rule is left at 794, then I will end up bringing two sets of equipment and having to try both to see which will be faster. Since most races are brushless only now, I've got rid of most of my brushed equipment. But either way, i will still enjoy myself.

I believe Dawn said a couple pages back that the host track can request a rule change just for the single event. If thats the case, I guess it doesn't matter if the ROAR rule is changed. I should just ask chicky and the guys at The Gate how they feel about it.

....
Dawn also started a thread about making Nationals a Brushless only venue. That would solve all the problems regarding weight. No weight change now to deal with later, super-stock will already be brushless only, and most of the Fast guys, I think, prefer not to deal with brushed but will instead of giving up 2oz to the almost as fast guys.

The lightest I've been able to get to with full Aluminum screws, Ti turnbuckles and drilled out motor pods, is 850g, I'm sure another 2oz lighter will accelerate better.

I'm going to run which ever I feel will yield the advantage, I just would like to know ahead of time how to plan.

I think if the host track request a deviation perhaps brushless only would be more fitting.


P.S. All that said...I spent all last night tuning/dynoing brushed motors for my dad running legends and trinity spec motors.....I dreaded starting but once I began I couldn't stop, I was having fun
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Old 12-29-2008, 05:53 PM   #126
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Ok, I'll bite. I tried 2 cell LiPo about 2 years ago at CEFX. It was murder on the diff and the speed was insane. Dumping wasn't a problem with the 3000 mAh pack I had but tire wear and the speed on the straight was rediculous. I only ran a 10.5 and it was insane. I can't emagine how a 5.5 would run on 2 cells.

Don't forget all the downsides we had in the "old days". You know "team only" cells. Mike Reedy handing out packs in the order that he felt people were driving that day. Guys fighting over 10 seconds of runtime because it was almost a lap. 12th was as much a battery war as it was a "drivers class".

We can't go back to the old days.

Don't think we'll dump on a 4000 mAh lipo? Someone dumped at Cleveland this year in the mod main. And it was an oldschool driver that can drive to make time. The top drivers are dumping with 5000 mAh (actual) so don't think for a minute that we won't be dumping with 4000 mAh and a hotter motor.
Fred, I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not advocating we go to 2 cell LiPO, and I'm not saying no one will dump with it. I was only responding to the two posts that suggested that someone bent on cheating by running two cells couldn't get away with it because he'd dump halfway through the race. I'm only making the point that someone who can drive to make time could probably get away with running a 7.4 2000mah Lipo and 13.5. Those two posts were suggesting that there was no need to worry about it because it would be impossible to make time. My point in responding was only to say that we 'd still need to volt check the cars to be sure everyone is really running 3.7 volts.
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Old 12-29-2008, 06:17 PM   #127
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No weight change now to deal with later
Whether the weight rule is changed now or not, the rule will have to be dealt with again when we all go lipo. 794 would be way to high for a single cell lipo car.
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Old 12-29-2008, 07:17 PM   #128
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Whether the weight rule is changed now or not, the rule will have to be dealt with again when we all go lipo. 794 would be way to high for a single cell lipo car.
Not If I save my IB4200's to make a Reciever pack
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:13 PM   #129
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it's not the fast guys whining about the rules.
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Old 12-29-2008, 08:23 PM   #130
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Fred, I think you misunderstood my point. I'm not advocating we go to 2 cell LiPO, and I'm not saying no one will dump with it. I was only responding to the two posts that suggested that someone bent on cheating by running two cells couldn't get away with it because he'd dump halfway through the race. I'm only making the point that someone who can drive to make time could probably get away with running a 7.4 2000mah Lipo and 13.5. Those two posts were suggesting that there was no need to worry about it because it would be impossible to make time. My point in responding was only to say that we 'd still need to volt check the cars to be sure everyone is really running 3.7 volts.
Trips,

I would have answered Fred's post by saying regardless of whether a guy dumps or not running a 7.4 lipo 2000 mah battery, he would not be able to hide the speed advantage he would have if everyone was running the same type of motor. He would also be the one coming off the driver stand sweating bullets. Hiding a 7.4 power from a 7.2 source, no problem but a 7.4 cheater lipo against a 4.8 Nihm or a 3.7 lipo no way.

One yank on the straight away and everyone would know. And I am an old school guy that remembers the days when the pros would overgear their cars and run the majority of time at less then full throttle, then late in the race when setting someone up for a pass.......zoooom, bye bye but if you did it too often then dumpola.

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Old 12-29-2008, 11:57 PM   #131
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Trips,

I would have answered Fred's post by saying regardless of whether a guy dumps or not running a 7.4 lipo 2000 mah battery, he would not be able to hide the speed advantage he would have if everyone was running the same type of motor. He would also be the one coming off the driver stand sweating bullets.
I'm already coming off the stand sweating bullets trying to keep up with liPO/13.5 guys running 689 gram cars... it's brutal.
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Old 12-30-2008, 12:04 AM   #132
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I'm already coming off the stand sweating bullets trying to keep up with liPO/13.5 guys running 689 gram cars... it's brutal.
Do you wear glasses? Every now and then when things are not going well for me on the stand my glasses will fog up on me, now that's a problem

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Old 12-30-2008, 12:15 AM   #133
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Do you wear glasses? Every now and then when things are not going well for me on the stand my glasses will fog up on me, now that's a problem

Steve
I do wear glasses, but almost never on the driver stand. I find it harder to be consistent when I have them on.
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Old 12-30-2008, 03:51 AM   #134
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What if we were to match (up) to the heaviest car at the event?

This setup run at NWIC race this year weighed 995g with 5 1/3AAA.

ROAR 1/12 weight limit-drillit-12l4-spgt-004.jpg

Later, with rec pack removed, still over 100g heavier than most....

ROAR 1/12 weight limit-12l4-tz-ii-004.jpg

Yes, light bodies help!

maybe I'm not sanding enough on the edge of the chassis.......
should use thin rather than thick ca.........
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:35 AM   #135
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I'm on the same page as Eli. The main reason I've been following this thread is because the upcoming ROAR nats in Cleveland.

Personaly, I would like to see the weight rule increased so I only have to bring brushless equipment. If the rule is left at 794, then I will end up bringing two sets of equipment and having to try both to see which will be faster. Since most races are brushless only now, I've got rid of most of my brushed equipment. But either way, i will still enjoy myself.

I believe Dawn said a couple pages back that the host track can request a rule change just for the single event. If thats the case, I guess it doesn't matter if the ROAR rule is changed. I should just ask chicky and the guys at The Gate how they feel about it.

I'd also like to say that I agree with what Sean Cochran said a couple pages back. Enforcing an easily achievable minimum weight can be a big money saver in all forms of racing. It can get expensive to try to make a car light. Or, you end up sacrificing durability to make your car light. I'd like to run at 865 as long as we're still running NiMh.

+1
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