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Old 12-24-2008, 03:31 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jpeck View Post
I wonder how many racers got turned off on sub-c's because of the IB fiasco of dead cells in packs, cells blowing up, etc. I'll consider running lipo's once SMC has competition in this marketspace. Hopefully, a workable solution can also be found for those wanting to stick with T-bar cars as well.
Yes the sub-c cell issue didn't help thats for sure but one of the things racers need to consider is that 12th scale and some oval clases are the only classes left using sub-c cells. We use to bring in 40 000 cells per month in the peak season when Lipos weren't around. Now we bring in 5 000 at most and we expect it to drop even more. So eventually it will not be worth it to bring in sub-c cells. This is why we did a single cell Lipo. As far as others releasing them I'm sure it will happen as I doubt our competitors will allow us to be the only game in town although that would be cool.
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Old 12-24-2008, 03:40 PM   #47
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I'm with Sean on this one - make a class for LiPo and then run it. If that takes over from NiMh, then one class lives and one dies - that's life. Nonetheless, remember that by far the vast majority of 12th drivers use NiMh, and to keep pushing something that means they all have to invest money in something new may mean 12th loses more drivers than it gains.

Seems to me that most people over there in ROAR are liking 3.7v/13.5, so why don't you push for that class, and get on board with it? If you did that, and were able to give advice and support to people who want to run it, you'd get more drivers in to it. All the arguing about equivalence is a waste of time, there isn't any.

I hope Sean's views prevail, it seems to me that if there was a 3.7v/13.5 BL class, there would be more 12th drivers...
The reason why the majority most are still running sub-c is because there was no single cell Lipos until we released ours a few months ago.

If investing money is a concern make the class 17.5 single cell and all that is needed is a Booster or a receiver pack. The motor stays the same. I also think slower speeds would be good. So stock could be 17.5 and make a pro class that uses 8.5 this way all the better drivers who want to go faster can race in that class instead of having 12 guys in mod driving cars that are out of control.

I don't think you should mix the class at the Nats or Regionals but at a weekly club event it can be done as getting racers to race is more important for the sport/hobby than worrying about the minor differences in performance.

We had 300 packs done and we thought we would be good until next season but we were very surprised to see that we sold all 300 of them in less than 2 months. This shows that 12th scale and Oval racers want to go the Lipo route. As usual with any new thing some will not want to do it as some don't like changes.
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Old 12-24-2008, 04:40 PM   #48
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yeah where are the saddle packs I have 4 tplate cars so now I have to go spend $600 to $800 to get new cars and parts and learn how to drive with a different driving style (spring cars drive different then tplate cars) just so I can go to single cell lipo and with saddle pack hard case lipo would the weight be higher. you can't base weight off the smc pack till others get into the market and you figure out the differences. sounds like you all are looking for answers or rules with only one horse in the town. and just think if trinity brings out a higher mah single cell that weighs more and that blows it all out of the water. thunderpower has a 2 cell 7800 pack it will happen and the weight will be more.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:36 PM   #49
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I agree with Danny that we could use the 17.5t with the single cell lipo.
After a year of racing guys are again making the "stock" class faster than beginners can handle.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:52 PM   #50
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For T-Plate cars you can put the pack on one side and the move the speed control and receiver on the other side. I think that should work. We can also set a minimum weight that would allow cars to make it easily and possibly have to add weight so that would allow T-Plate cars to be balanced easier. I just don't see how a single cell saddle could be feasible as it seems T-Plate cars aren't as popular.

As far as heavier packs go if the case size is frozen that will keep the weight frozen as well.
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Old 12-24-2008, 05:58 PM   #51
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[QUOTE=Danny/SMC;5206984]For T-Plate cars you can put the pack on one side and the move the speed control and receiver on the other side. I think that should work.

This can and has been done and it works great! A friend of mine did this about a week ago and ran the car this past sunday without any problems or issues

Danny, I ran Donnys car this past weekend with the lipo and its awesome
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:41 PM   #52
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We had 300 packs done and we thought we would be good until next season but we were very surprised to see that we sold all 300 of them in less than 2 months.
So you're saying they were a lot more popular than you thought they would be...

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I just don't see how a single cell saddle could be feasible as it seems T-Plate cars aren't as popular.
T-Bar cars might also be a lot more popular than you expect... I'd ask that you take a leap of faith here and do a 3.7 saddle pack. I will not put all the electronics on one side and the battery on the other to run a 3.7 LiPO in my car.

Someone WILL make a 3.7 saddle pack, and I'll buy them. I'd rather it was from SMC tho, no doubt about it...

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As far as others releasing them I'm sure it will happen as I doubt our competitors will allow us to be the only game in town although that would be cool.
Ii guess this begs the question... when someone else DOES release a 3.7 saddle pack, will you allow THEM to be the only game in town? I'd prefer to buy SMC, but if I can get a 3.7 saddle pack elsewhere I'll go that route.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:51 PM   #53
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The only way possibly running them together will even be close to fair is if both types run at a fair weight limit for both types of cells. 794 grams is not fair for the Nimh. As I stated before giving the lipo cars a 65-70 gram weight break isn't right. I understand that a lot of people want to run lipos but at a race to determine a National Champion you can't just throw another variable in this class that is currently one of the most popular in the US. Club races can do what they feel is best but lets leave the Nationals alone for this year and them try to implement the lipos in next season. If ROAR wants to allow single cell lipo to run in Mod I'm ok with that, with a fair weight limit, but not in stock.
+1 again.

so far everything you've posted hits the nail square on the head. my only addition is that this suck for the few that also travel to big events. if at the club level, there will be a 13.5/lipo and 17.4/4cell mixed class, as you said, the weight break and the torque of the 13.5 just makes it hard to mix the class. so for some of us, that would mean a $50 lipo pack and a $75 lipo charger and a $25-$50 dc-dc converter or rx pack, and a $75 13.5 motor, just to run club races. and then I still have to keep all my nimh chargers and dischargers, and 17.5 motor and buy new batts, when I travel to the "big" races. and then if I travel to other club race's I might be running lipo, or I might have to run nimh. then do I have good nimh because they have been sitting for 3 months? I don't hate the new technology, I hate the transition periods. it cost the die hard racers alot of $$$. we really need a ruling from ROAR what they are going to do about lipo. Many clubs tend to follow ROAR rules

as sean said, my vote is to run separate classes. mixing is really not an option
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Old 12-25-2008, 09:16 PM   #54
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Yang,
I know you aren't complaining about $$$...you can afford it

As far as weight goes....currently, i'd like to see the weight limit at 865g for 4 cell brushed/brushless. If Lipo were to be the standard....go back to a lower weight. Sounds like the 13.5/3.7v w/rx pack is the way to go. I'd like to run that combo, but the state that I'm moving to (50th) doesn't allow lipos
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Old 12-25-2008, 11:09 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by theisgroup View Post
$75 lipo charger and a $25-$50 dc-dc converter or rx pack

we really need a ruling from ROAR what they are going to do about lipo. Many clubs tend to follow ROAR rules

as sean said, my vote is to run separate classes. mixing is really not an option
Why you buying a seperate LiPo charger, and why spend on a dc-dc converter? When most chargers now do majority of the different batteries, and also your running strictly dc in in the cars except for maybe the rf circuitry in the reciever. Maybe or maybe, not needed is a regulator to provide a safe operating range for the receiver, but a converter ( what gives?).

Roar can set rules all they want for national down to the regional level, but that still does not control the club level races. Classes are going to mix down at club level no matter what is determind by ROAR, just to keep attendance up and also to let everyone get a chance to race.
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:35 AM   #56
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Why you buying a seperate LiPo charger, and why spend on a dc-dc converter? When most chargers now do majority of the different batteries, and also your running strictly dc in in the cars except for maybe the rf circuitry in the reciever. Maybe or maybe, not needed is a regulator to provide a safe operating range for the receiver, but a converter ( what gives?).
I run 2 much more ctx-c. they will only charge LI-Ion at 1amp. so new charger if you want to just run 1 pack. there is no way 1amp charge will get you charged for the next heat. either that or purchase a second 1 cell. the dc-dc converter is what they call the voltage booster. it converts 3.7v to 6v so that your rx, speedo and servo's will run for 8min. either that or run a rx pack or I purchase a new speedo at ~$180.



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Roar can set rules all they want for national down to the regional level, but that still does not control the club level races. Classes are going to mix down at club level no matter what is determind by ROAR, just to keep attendance up and also to let everyone get a chance to race.
ahh, but there in lies the rub. the regulars do not want to mix. so either we all purchase lipo or we all run NIMH. I am ok with nimh, because none of the big races are running a mixed class at this point. But our fair weather racers all want to run Lipo and they are ok with the mixing of classes. so at this point we are not mixing.
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Old 12-26-2008, 06:58 AM   #57
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Yang,
I know you aren't complaining about $$$...you can afford it
lol

i went through this with the brushless "transition" as well. it is all about racing and what is faster. It was easier for me to make that leap because, well I did not care what the rules were at that point. I did not want to go to vegas or snowbirds or the nats. so I did not care that ROAR did not approave brushless motors. so I did as much homework as I could and then started the buying from Novak. First is was the 5800, then the 4300, then the 4300 sinter, then the 13.5 and then finally the 17.5 and at the time, these things we $75-$80 so that is $375 just in the "Cheaper" motors. luckily, I did not have to also keep up with the latest and greatest brushed motors as well. also at the time, yeah the gtb is the one to run, then lrp sphere, then the gtb spreadspektrum and then the gtb 4 cell. all before we could even run brushless in stock.
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Old 12-26-2008, 07:59 AM   #58
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I did not want to go to vegas.
Last time I saw you at Vegas...you won a boat load of $$$ on the craps table that paid for your trip


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i went through this with the brushless "transition" as well.... First is was the 5800, then the 4300, then the 4300 sinter, then the 13.5 and then finally the 17.5 and at the time, these things we $75-$80 so that is $375 just in the "Cheaper" motors.
Yang,
I agree with you 100%...and we wonder why this hobby is going under. It's too much change in technology and too many classes within classes. Let's just go back to the good ole days of 1/12 stock/Mod, and WGT stock/mod

Hope you and your family had a great christmas
Paul

Sorry for hijacking this thread....let's get back on the topic of ROAR 1/12 weight limit
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:21 AM   #59
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I agree with Danny that we could use the 17.5t with the single cell lipo.
After a year of racing guys are again making the "stock" class faster than beginners can handle.
Wow, I did not know you could type. Or do you have a voice activated laptop?
Merry Christmas Sean
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Old 12-26-2008, 08:26 AM   #60
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Last time I saw you at Vegas...you won a boat load of $$$ on the craps table that paid for your trip
for some reason all that money went away when I got home.




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Yang,
I agree with you 100%...and we wonder why this hobby is going under. It's too much change in technology and too many classes within classes. Let's just go back to the good ole days of 1/12 stock/Mod, and WGT stock/mod

Hope you and your family had a great christmas
Paul

Sorry for hijacking this thread....let's get back on the topic of ROAR 1/12 weight limit
i agree. they just need to make a ruling so we can get on with racing.

Christmas was good. it was quiet. hope you and yours had a good one as well. when is the move the the 50th state?
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