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Old 12-23-2008, 01:16 PM   #31
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At my local track we happen to have just that opportunity with a past 1/12 IIC Champ. Without any pre-race practice one afternoon, "Driver-A" simply came in and "borrowed" a car for the Main in 1/12. No changes were made to the car, no special batteries, just a Rev.5 with 4-cell pack and a 17.5 motor. During the single time "Driver-A" raced, he consistently ran .30 to .40 second quicker laps than the cars owner could from lap #1 to lap #33, and was consistent from lap to lap in doing so. When we race against this car and cars owner normally, most club racers are another .40 to .50 seconds slower than him, if not slower.
I've seen this happen a lot, and it irritates me and then makes me chuckle... every single time. I've had it happen with my own car... that's even worse... ...lol...
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Old 12-23-2008, 02:06 PM   #32
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Racing is about competition, speed is relative. Whether the car goes 25mph or 35mph, is of little concern. The cars we drive, with the exception of the top 40 drivers in the USA are all over powered. The slower the car, the easier it is to drive. I didn't say it was easy, I said it was "easier". The slower the car, the more extreme accuracy and skill are rewarded. making winning that much harder. Ironic isn't it.

Do you feel if you had the chance to race any top 10 driver from say, Vegas, Cleveland, the Birds, that you could beat them with a 17.5 if they had a 21.5 and your cells? What about if they had a 17.5 and you could have ANY motor you chose. Do you feel that having the fastest available motor would allow you to beat them if they were running a 17.5 on say the average carpet road course track 40x80?

Why is it that 70% of drivers that run something like 17.5 and open mod at the same road course event, have trouble turning faster laps when they have unlimited power? And most go slower in mod? What is the kind of information trying to tell us?

RC racing isn't about the motor, or the speed. It's about the challenge. Classes and rules just make the challenge organized. And relative to RC racing more speed is usually the LAST thing most of us need. IF you're honest with yourself.

I don't want a faster race, I want a BETTER race.

Here's to wishing you all better racing in 2009.
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Old 12-23-2008, 03:56 PM   #33
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You are all very kind.

I think most of us have our heads and hearts in the right place. Just need to find the right class for each area. There really is no "one size fits all answer". Just good basic ideas and concepts.

Keep it in control, improve the quality of the racing. Think about the best races you've had this year. None of them will be the time where you put 5 laps on the noobs. It will be where you or somebody in your heat tried some crazy "Hail Mary" move that actually worked and won the race on the last lap. Or, that one crazy Mike Blackstock move you could never pull off twice but made it stick THAT ONE TIME. Or a ridiculous pass that actually worked and had the crowd clapping in amazement. Or the one golden race a guy gets about once a year where you and some other car can swap the lead, every single lap for 5-8 minutes, all over each others lines, but being courteous and clean. Each driver capable of ejecting the other driver, but neither driving doing it. And when you cross the line, you're not even sure who won, But you're so JACKED from an unbelievable performance that you don't even care... That's racing. Not how fast your car is.

I would also like to mention that racing flourishes where it is fun, dies where it is not. Keep it fun, give guys a reason to come back. I'd be willing to race a pencil sharpener if you could show me how to make it fun.

World GT is enjoying some success right now because it's fun. Make it to fast and that will be the end of it....again.
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Old 12-23-2008, 09:13 PM   #34
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You are all very kind.


World GT is enjoying some success right now because it's fun. Make it to fast and that will be the end of it....again.
Again 1000%. I really think the lipo/17.5 are too fast for the new people we are trying to attract with WGT.
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Old 12-23-2008, 11:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
At my local track we happen to have just that opportunity with a past 1/12 IIC Champ. Without any pre-race practice one afternoon, "Driver-A" simply came in and "borrowed" a car for the Main in 1/12. No changes were made to the car, no special batteries, just a Rev.5 with 4-cell pack and a 17.5 motor. During the single time "Driver-A" raced, he consistently ran .30 to .40 second quicker laps than the cars owner could from lap #1 to lap #33, and was consistent from lap to lap in doing so. When we race against this car and cars owner normally, most club racers are another .40 to .50 seconds slower than him, if not slower.

What does this tell me, my driving sucks! I know that no amount of special parts, motors, or batteries will make me drive faster than a really good driver, regardless of how we change the motor, battery, weight, body, or class types. I'm not discouraged by this fact, but excited in knowing that the only thing really slowing me down is me.

The rules just need to be settled in a manner that promotes a more level playing field, at least equipent wise. Slower or faster is not the answer, better driving is the answer, just as Bob said.
Kelly
the best way to see why Driver A went more laps is to whach his lines and then go into Mike's and get out the wheel and walk the track and see how many feet he took to go around and then go drive you car and have someone else walk your line and see the how many more or less you did. I did this with Yang a year or so ago and there was 85 feet diffrance, which on the Layout we had would work out to lapping him by 3 laps after 8min snice then Yang has been working on his line and not speed and now most of you guy are chasing him.
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Old 12-24-2008, 07:42 AM   #36
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Slow is Faster is what I am discovering, so adjust your wheels to the track fellas... Practice makes you a better driver
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Old 01-21-2009, 11:51 AM   #37
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Noone talking shit here so you may want to restrain yourself before you get your feelings hurt....all I was saying is " I" believe 21.5 is TOO slow. Locally the guys are running 13.5 4cell and some run 17.5 lipo. Both are comparable with the lipo being a touch faster. Now I dont agree with it being a 4cell class because that just opens the door for whomever has the best packs, deepest pocket, or sweetest hookup. I think maybe limiting it to say a 3200mah lipo would be a better choice. Again just throwing that out there.......regardless I will race the class. You just wont see me at any major events as long as it continues to be 4cell.
that the same thing with the 21.5 at the novak race we were still turning out 12.4's and such wit hthe 10.5 class in the 11.2's ans 10.5's range fun stuff look foward to racing out in your area some time
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:28 PM   #38
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...I saw someone post something about the 21.5 motors with LIPO being TOO SLOW.

I use to laugh when we switched OVAL to 4 cell and guys said the same thing about the speeds. Yet in less than a YEAR at most tracks OVAL "PAN" Cars w/ 4 cell were turning laps as fast, and in some cases FASTER than the 6 cell cars had gone the year before.

What's even more funny is that on our LARGE OVAL tracks - we are running 21.5/LIPO and turning times faster in 2008 than the 6 cell MODIFIED "Expert/Pro" guys turned about 10 years ago when we originally switched to 4 cell. (We switched because many thought 6 cell was getting too fast)

IF YOU ARE SLOW WITH 21.5/LIPO - you ain't doing it right!

21.5/LIPO has VERY LOW RPM's but LOW RPM's doesn't make it slow...(unless of course you are trying to GEAR IT like a HIGH RPM motor!)
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:34 PM   #39
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This is an awesome thread and kind of reminds me of my real 1:1 racing days. The saying in the real car racing world is "It's not about how fast you can make your car go. It's about how much money you have." In all honesty, I am seeing a little bit of this in this thread.

Not bashing anyone or anything, I just find this a little funny that these conversations are in the R/C world as well!
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:00 PM   #40
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In reading this thread, all I will say is listed to Mr. Stormer. This guy has it right and knows what this game is all about. Similar to what he is saying, I would much rather race door to door for 10th than to lap the entire field and win.

Faster isn't always better.
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