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Old 03-10-2004, 09:37 PM   #91
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MrEs, I truly hope brushless has a great future. I for one believe in it enough to add it to the list of available classes in our club. But as I said before....brushless will take a bit of time to get widely accepted so for now we must deal with brushed motors. I agree with you that the cost issue might not be the biggest hurdle.The real problem is that so few places offer a bl racing class that it might scare off most prospective new drivers. Once more tracks offer a bl class, this should change. If we could adopt this "spec" idea, it might actually help the brushless movement. BL would be an available step up from spec stock primarily because many of these drivers won't have invested in all that extra stuff you need to tune and tweak brushed motors.

Thanks Doggy !! I was pretty sure about that problem fitting can motors to a TC3. I remember there was a reasonable fix but I don't think the effort is worth it.

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Old 03-10-2004, 10:17 PM   #92
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well at my track we have 540, 540 pro, stock and mod. im racing now in 540 pro and would love to go to something faster, but stock is not alot faster and would require the purchase of a lath and alot of other gear including brushes every week to be competative; since im at uni i cant afford it. i use my friends lath now and them but i am REALLY waiting for a local BL class!
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Old 03-10-2004, 10:30 PM   #93
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yeah once you actually invest the money in getting lathes and stuff for brushed motors, the intrest in brushless fades a bit.

newer drivers are probably more inclined to go with the more expensive brushless setup if they're shown the difference when it comes to maintenance... i know i was tempted to go for brushless, but that would've meant i couldnt race in a proper class ,except mod... and who starts off in mod anyway.. i've broken enough stuff learning to drive with stock as it is
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Old 03-10-2004, 10:30 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrEs
well at my track we have 540, 540 pro, stock and mod. im racing now in 540 pro and would love to go to something faster, but stock is not alot faster and would require the purchase of a lath and alot of other gear including brushes every week to be competative; since im at uni i cant afford it. i use my friends lath now and them but i am REALLY waiting for a local BL class!
Actually you will find that many LHS will cut your comm for you for a very low fee, even free if you buy a lot of gear there. Brushes are pretty cheap and you dont need to replace them every week if you are not arcing your stock motor. I do agree that stock is not much quicker.

The BIG thing for 540 though is that you need very good batteries to compete since all the motors are so equal voltage makes a huge difference.

In mod you dont need killer voltage just runtime, hence you can save a heap of money by buying "average" 3300 packs. You can get 2 meets out of mod brushes if you reface them
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Old 03-10-2004, 10:34 PM   #95
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Quote:
but stock is not alot faster and would require the purchase of a lath and alot of other gear including brushes every week to be competative;
hi mres,

that is not interly correct , you can get the one of the other 70 people at the track to cut a comm for you , most stock racers cant afford lathes anyway, if you move to stock put batteries at the top of your list , i ran 2 meet old brushes and belted tires to win stock a few meets ago , wait till you move to mod then you will complain
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Old 03-10-2004, 10:38 PM   #96
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yeah but you're just the goddess alex :P

batteries definatly give you a huge advantage (with higher voltages etc)

i reckon ive got about 20% more power now since i changed from cheapo stickpacks to fukuyama matched packs

old tyres dont really make too much of a difference i dont think, as long as they're still in 1 peice and dont have cuts/ribs or any other dodgy bits in them they should be fine
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Old 03-10-2004, 11:33 PM   #97
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cost - overall, racing at similar levels, stock is cheaper...period.

future of mod - when novak releases their 'unlimited' motor (i would assume by xmas of this year), you'll see brushless gain considerable numbers.

future of stock - if novak includes a 'sport mode' equivelant on the unlimited setup, that will seriously impact the number of stock racers also. otherwise nothing is going to change in stock. if anything, stock is in a holding pattern right now. when was the last new motor release from one of the 4 main players? correct me on these dates if i'm wrong: trinity ms: 1.5 years ago, yok mvp 3+ years ago, orion 2 years, matrix (whomever makes the pink can) 2 years.

batteries for stock vs mod - gp's lose time faster than voltage. you can run batteries in stock (voltage) at a 'near new' level, alot longer than you can in mod (run time).

the biggest thing that's holding brushless back right now is not cost, it's that novak hasn't released their unlimited kit. for the nay-sayers that think manufacturer or organizational support is affecting brushless, i fully disagree....look at t/e-maxx's, 3-4 years ago racing 'monster' trucks meant a clodzilla conversion kit and living in east of the rockies. now you can see tmaxx at about 1/2 the offroad race venues on a given week.

the hobby has never been funner. kits are faster/stronger/lighter/cheaper out of the box, batteries have more capacity/voltage than ever, and gadgets like peak chargers and synth modules are just icing on the cake!
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Old 03-11-2004, 11:36 AM   #98
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Default The future of stock class?

Guys;

Here's my thoughts on Brushless at this stage of the game.

1) You have X number of companies selling brushless systems right now, with undoubtably more to come in the future.

2) NOT one of them is the same in performance and specs. So WHICH brushless system do you allow?

3) For the moment, the initial cost of BL is considerably higher than the equivilant brushed motor route.

4) Racers are very creative and WILL find ways to stretch the envelope (Tweak) within the limit of the rules (Wait there are none!)

Given the above, I find it hard to see BL as being the new "Spec" class and more of a novelty for quite some time to come yet.
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Old 03-11-2004, 01:44 PM   #99
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And.....

5) Trinity says Brushless sucks.

J
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Old 03-11-2004, 01:49 PM   #100
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Hey jamie whats up? i've ran brushless and was impressed but i personally enjoy tuning motors and if a new guy was to go brushless from the start then went somewhere and ran brushed motors he would be a disadvantage to guys experienced at tuning motors just my $.02 worth l8r.
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Old 03-11-2004, 02:02 PM   #101
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Yo, what's up... I'd like to try Brushless but not enough people run them at our track.

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Old 03-11-2004, 04:41 PM   #102
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I dont know about you but looking at the price of brushes.... Even $1 per brush is $2 per change. Once or less a week if you are a fast racer. I have spent $100's on brushes alone.
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Old 03-11-2004, 04:57 PM   #103
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Who is telling all the new drivers that they need to spend a ton of money on expensive hop ups to compete in the Stock class? I know that doesn't happen at my local track.

In my opinion, Stock class can be run very cheaply at the local level. You don't need to spend a bunch of money to be competetive and have fun. You don't need to true your com every run or change brushes several times per race day. With 3300 batteries, the voltage improves with use, so batteries can last quite a while. Tires do wear, but if you work on the chassis setup, they will last MUCH longer.

I talk to many racers at my local track. I have helped many newer racers get their cars more competetive. I feel bad when I tell them they need to buy a new set of springs because the kit springs are too soft. I hate making them spend $8 to get their car handling. On rare occassions, I need to tell them to try different tires. I have talked many racers out of spending their money on motors and battery and they have still improved dramatically.

Many people get frustrated with racing and quit. In many cases, it is because they don't think they will ever improve to the point where they are truely competetive. As with any learning venture, it takes time to get where you are going. It's just sad that many people think that it should only take a few weeks to get to the top instead of a few years.

Spec classes are just another form of a niche class. They may be hot for a little while, but they do eventually fade. As soon as one of the better drivers decides to try it for fun or to reduce their spending, you can pretty much kiss the class goodbye. I've seen this happen time after time.

The best solution is to build a good fraternity of racers. Give encouragement to the newer racers and offer them advice before they ask for it. Show them that you are noticing their improvement. A few good pats on the back will do wonders for how they feel about this hobby.
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Old 03-11-2004, 06:38 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally posted by PitCrew

I dont know about you but looking at the price of brushes.... Even $1 per brush is $2 per change. Once or less a week if you are a fast racer. I have spent $100's on brushes alone.
I've seen others make similar statements before. I personally can go 20+ runs on a pair of brushes in a STOCK Motor (reserrating every 4-5 runs) and not see any loss in power.

Obviously gearing and brush compound have alot to do with it, but if you're changing brushes every few runs, there may be something else going on. Otherwise, why throw out good brushes? (I'm ONLY talking about STOCK Motors here)
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Old 03-11-2004, 07:35 PM   #105
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Wow !! How strange...the conversation went from people saying that stock drivers can and will be as competitive as any other group so they should be encouraged to buy all the stuff they want to WIN !!! A few even said that cheating is normal and will happen no matter what.
Now a few are commenting that stock DOESN'T have to be the hardcore, win at all cost, if it makes you go faster...buy it form of racing that it has become. Gotpez and Popsracer both have made some good comments. But thats exactly why a "spec" program would be better than what we have now. Things NEED to be MORE structured so that more or all new/newer drivers will enjoy themselves and stay in the hobby. Of course spec is a niche.....every class is...hell,for that matter rc cars are also !!! But as I said before, there is a limit to how structured you can make things. ie: Legends class or Trinity's new "spec" car. Too much !!! People need room to enjoy the buying process of the car they choose. By simply placing some "spec" restrictions on other(batteries and motors) aspects of "stock" that have high peripheral costs and are usually purchased because of poor advice or peer pressure, we can still enjoy stock motors , level the field a bit and offer a better introduction phase into the hobby.
I haven't really heard one legitimate reason this wouldn't be a good idea for the group as a whole. Try putting yourselves in the shoes of a newcomer. For those of you who had and/or have a good experience....great !! But many more don't !!
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