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Old 12-12-2008, 07:32 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by AdrianM View Post
Since spec tires are working so well in WGT what do you guys think about running Lilacs all around on 1/12th cars? I bet it would work.
No thanks. I would rather drive a dialed car than a almost dialed car....

Now here is the funny part: if we could run PARAGON!

Hell, Greens would be dialed on Paragon!
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Old 12-12-2008, 08:41 PM   #77
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I say leave 1/12th alone. If you want a spec class look to one of the others not 1/12. This class is far from broke. If you wanna fix something go fix TC. 1/12th is growing like mad this year from what I am seeing. More people are boycoting other classes and joining the 1/12th scale guys. Why it is I don't know. Maybe the price of some of the othe classes has gotten way outta hand. I've been out for 4 years and 1/12th is what I came back to. Its the most cost effective class for me. I can't and will not buy a $500. Car every season. 1/12th hasent changed much since the last time I raced. Enough said.lol
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:16 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Screw SPEC,

Sorry SPEC racing is fun for a few guys that want to have some door pounding action in a parking lot. When it comes to big events and even club racing the tires should not be limited to one brand. The tires on the winning car should be just as important as the driver who won the event. Racing is not purely a drivers sport, it is a manufactures exhibition. If cost control is the objective of SPEC tires, then other cost control measures could be developed that give all manufactures a chance at selling tires.

Step One Limit the number of alloted in tires at an event. Is one pair of tires per heat or main event too strict?

Step Two Limit the tire selection per manufacture

Give every manufacture up to three compound choices for control tires that are allowed in a series or event. But Limit the compound choices to just two compounds for fronts or rears. The catch is that once a manufacture chooses three compounds, that will be the only allowed compound for the year from that manufacture. I borrow this idea from full scale racing were most tire selection is limited to Soft or Hard compound during a series. Racers can not mix manufacutres, must all be a single brand for tires.

So every tire company would have:
Compound A
Compound B
Compound C

Front tires Choices would be:
Compound A or Compound B

Rear Compound Choices would be:
Compound B or Compound C

Since the manufacture is mainly only focused on three tire compounds and not a dozen or more for 1:12 tires, the cost could start to decline by the increases volume of the three chosen foam compounds by foam suppliers. As you noticed, one compound is being used for both fronts and rears so the B compound prices could end up being cheaper per set because the volume of foam is greater than A or C.

What this ABC compound selection does is helps out the tracks and hobby stores with what to stock. Rather than stock One brand with a dozen compounds and have low inventory turn over. Hobby shops could instead stock two or three brands of just three compounds that they know will be sold. This would save hobby shops cost from discounting those "Lime" and "Amber" compounds that were hot for one week and junk the next. A smaller more active inventory will save hobby shops money and that savings can be passed on to the racers.

Without this going too far, I would like to see tire manufacture stop double selling tire compounds. If they offer a 'SPEC' or 'Cost Control' tire in a certain compound, why the heck are they also offering the same tire on the same rim in different package for $5 more? Just put the white foam band or the carbon rim on the tire and label the package as "Approved Tire" for the series and discount the tire a little bit compared to the other dozen compounds used in no-limit racing. This once again will reduce inventory for hobby shops and reduce the cost to racers.
Quite simply one of the smartest answers I've read here so far.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:10 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Screw SPEC,

Sorry SPEC racing is fun for a few guys that want to have some door pounding action in a parking lot. When it comes to big events and even club racing the tires should not be limited to one brand. The tires on the winning car should be just as important as the driver who won the event. Racing is not purely a drivers sport, it is a manufactures exhibition. If cost control is the objective of SPEC tires, then other cost control measures could be developed that give all manufactures a chance at selling tires.

Step One Limit the number of alloted in tires at an event. Is one pair of tires per heat or main event too strict?

Step Two Limit the tire selection per manufacture

Give every manufacture up to three compound choices for control tires that are allowed in a series or event. But Limit the compound choices to just two compounds for fronts or rears. The catch is that once a manufacture chooses three compounds, that will be the only allowed compound for the year from that manufacture. I borrow this idea from full scale racing were most tire selection is limited to Soft or Hard compound during a series. Racers can not mix manufacutres, must all be a single brand for tires.

So every tire company would have:
Compound A
Compound B
Compound C

Front tires Choices would be:
Compound A or Compound B

Rear Compound Choices would be:
Compound B or Compound C

Since the manufacture is mainly only focused on three tire compounds and not a dozen or more for 1:12 tires, the cost could start to decline by the increases volume of the three chosen foam compounds by foam suppliers. As you noticed, one compound is being used for both fronts and rears so the B compound prices could end up being cheaper per set because the volume of foam is greater than A or C.

What this ABC compound selection does is helps out the tracks and hobby stores with what to stock. Rather than stock One brand with a dozen compounds and have low inventory turn over. Hobby shops could instead stock two or three brands of just three compounds that they know will be sold. This would save hobby shops cost from discounting those "Lime" and "Amber" compounds that were hot for one week and junk the next. A smaller more active inventory will save hobby shops money and that savings can be passed on to the racers.

Without this going too far, I would like to see tire manufacture stop double selling tire compounds. If they offer a 'SPEC' or 'Cost Control' tire in a certain compound, why the heck are they also offering the same tire on the same rim in different package for $5 more? Just put the white foam band or the carbon rim on the tire and label the package as "Approved Tire" for the series and discount the tire a little bit compared to the other dozen compounds used in no-limit racing. This once again will reduce inventory for hobby shops and reduce the cost to racers.
Maybe for large events where grip is always good but for normal everyday Joe Shmo races 2 front or rear compounds may not be enough. At our little race I already see at least 3 different compound rear tires being used and the same for fronts just within the top 3 drivers.
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Old 12-13-2008, 08:39 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by DHMOTORSPORTS View Post
I say leave 1/12th alone. If you want a spec class look to one of the others not 1/12. This class is far from broke. If you wanna fix something go fix TC. 1/12th is growing like mad this year from what I am seeing. More people are boycoting other classes and joining the 1/12th scale guys. Why it is I don't know. Maybe the price of some of the othe classes has gotten way outta hand. I've been out for 4 years and 1/12th is what I came back to. Its the most cost effective class for me. I can't and will not buy a $500. Car every season. 1/12th hasent changed much since the last time I raced. Enough said.lol
I 2nd that. Plus do not mess with it, if to fast for some driver then need to drop a slower motor in it. At are club we move to a stock motor and we pick up 5 more racers. The class is getting bigger to the point to adding 2nd classes for the guys that want too go faster.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:36 AM   #81
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Does a club racer need to have 10 different compounds of tires on hand? My experience is that once the track establishes itself, the window of tires that work is pretty narrow. If you're going all over hells half acre to race, you probably know about what you need, or the cost of tires is irrelevant because your committed to what your doing or have a small "deal". With lipo finally starting to make a somewhat positive impression, let's forget about the tire thing.
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Old 12-13-2008, 12:49 PM   #82
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I posted this thread just to get some opinions not to suggest any sort of change to 1/12th rules.

I know where I race all I need are double pinks front and rear for asphalt and lilac front and yellow rear for carpet. Thats what everyone runs. They are guys that run different stuff but they have wacky setups or wacky cars and are totally not competative.
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Old 12-13-2008, 02:23 PM   #83
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I run josh's car which always has a TON of steering and at the classic and at the indoor champs I ran pink rears and lilac or dbl pink fronts. Yellows have a bad tendency to peel especially on tracks that aren't that smooth.

to say all the "fast guys" run yellow and lilacs is kind of a silly statement. some in stock 12th A were running whites with the grey outer ring that were in the A I ran pink rears and dbl pnk fronts. actually I ran that in both 17.5 and 13.5 12th. mainly b/c yellows or whites tear too easy and I'd rather finish a race with looping out one direction. Plus its much more stable.

I finished 3rd in 17.5, 6th in 13.5 after getting hacked and 3rd in GT behind that not so fast guy Eli Ezrow LOL

you can't say only "this" tire setup is fast. drivers have different feel preferences some like a loose car and others like me prefer a car that is a little more stuck. I can drive my car in a lot harder than most without having to worry about the rear end washing out.

Different things work for different people. but lilac's either way are a HORRIBLE rear tire for 12th.

maybe a spec pink rear and lilac front would work. good wear without having to worry so much about chunking or peeling a tire...

or leave it like it is I carry more tires than the tire sponsor LOL so whatever works for everyone else...

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Old 12-13-2008, 02:33 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Screw SPEC,
Step One Limit the number of alloted in tires at an event. Is one pair of tires per heat or main event too strict?
I think you made some good points in your post... but I'm not sure I understand this one part... it seems to me that if you'd allow a set of tires for every heat and the main, then that's the same as no limit... or by saying "one pair" do you mean allowing only two of the four tires to be changed for each run?

Sorry I'm not quite getting it... please clarify?
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Old 12-13-2008, 03:33 PM   #85
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I think you made some good points in your post... but I'm not sure I understand this one part... it seems to me that if you'd allow a set of tires for every heat and the main, then that's the same as no limit... or by saying "one pair" do you mean allowing only two of the four tires to be changed for each run?

Sorry I'm not quite getting it... please clarify?
Well with no-limit racing the difference is reserve stock of tires. Jaco has 10 compounds. So 10 compounds, 6 possible runs, and two sets per car would 120 tires sets needed in reserve to cover every possible tire setup to be just as competitive as the other race teams for tire selection. This creates a lot of cost in racing at far off events. Having a manufacture mail off 1000's of tires to a race team at a world event could be expensive.

With tire set limits imposed, the race teams must determine what tires prior to the race that will be needed or most likely used and have 6 sets checked in before the first heat. So the reserve stock of tires is eliminated from 120 tire pairs to just 6 whole tire sets and also what will be used in the 30min of practice before the event. If race teams feel the track grip will change, then the the race team will have to check in different compounds but still be limited to 6 front pairs and 6 rear pairs. So compared to no-limit racing ans tire set limits, there could be cost saving to racers and manufactures by reducing the reserve stock needed at a race.

The compound regulations help make the decision easier to what tires to buy in advance for reserve stock and what tires to practice and test with. If a racer only has Soft or Firm for the selection of compounds the most appropriate choice will stand out versus subtle differences in 10 or more compounds. Since all manufactures would be limited to compound submittal, every racer and manufacture has the opportunity to be equally competitive. It will be the manufactures choice in compounds each year that will determine if their selection strategy paid off with more wins and happier racers.
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Old 12-13-2008, 10:56 PM   #86
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I run josh's car which always has a TON of steering and at the classic and at the indoor champs I ran pink rears and lilac or dbl pink fronts. Yellows have a bad tendency to peel especially on tracks that aren't that smooth.

to say all the "fast guys" run yellow and lilacs is kind of a silly statement. some in stock 12th A were running whites with the grey outer ring that were in the A I ran pink rears and dbl pnk fronts. actually I ran that in both 17.5 and 13.5 12th. mainly b/c yellows or whites tear too easy and I'd rather finish a race with looping out one direction. Plus its much more stable.

I finished 3rd in 17.5, 6th in 13.5 after getting hacked and 3rd in GT behind that not so fast guy Eli Ezrow LOL

you can't say only "this" tire setup is fast. drivers have different feel preferences some like a loose car and others like me prefer a car that is a little more stuck. I can drive my car in a lot harder than most without having to worry about the rear end washing out.

Different things work for different people. but lilac's either way are a HORRIBLE rear tire for 12th.

maybe a spec pink rear and lilac front would work. good wear without having to worry so much about chunking or peeling a tire...

or leave it like it is I carry more tires than the tire sponsor LOL so whatever works for everyone else...

$.02
I was saying that what we run at MY track...not everywhere. If we ran pink rears at my home track (and we have tried) the cars would handle fine but would be so stuck they would be really slow.
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