R/C Tech Forums

Go Back   R/C Tech Forums > General Forums > Electric On-Road

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-07-2008, 09:17 PM   #1
Tech Addict
 
Adam?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ohhh, that guy...
Posts: 639
Default What's the deal with TC weight?

It seems like all of a sudden, we're trying to reduce the minimum weight rules for sedans. I see ROAR plans to make changes, Snowbirds has a much lower weight, and I think Novak as well?

So what's reasoning behind this? Is it to kill of NiMH? To benefit designs like the Type-R and E4? Is this really the best move, or is it change for the sake of change? And, finally, what's the new standard weight going to be?

One really nice thing about LiPo is that it gives just about any car the opportunity to be right at the legal weight limit without all kinds of crazy concessions, like titanium screws and LW bodies. With lighter batteries, wouldn't it make more sense to increase the durability of the cars (likely making them heavier)?
Adam? is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 09:31 PM   #2
Tech Master
 
mild seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,035
Trader Rating: 63 (100%+)
Send a message via MSN to mild seven
Default

Here in Melbourne, Australia they have changed the min weight to 1425grams. They believe this is the way rc is going so they have made the change to be effective of jan 1st 2009.

I believe 1450 grams would of been a better min weight as its easier for some one with Nimh packs to get there car to that min weight.
mild seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 10:06 PM   #3
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: All 48 states...
Posts: 2,053
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

I say its a good move....I know with the 08 I had to add like 140g of weight to meet the 1525 for rubber tire. Also another racer with a Type R had to add almost as much about 130g of weight to make 1525. Now what I think would be a better change would be short bl motors so they dont hang so far off to one side.......of course the Tamaya(sp) guys dont have to worry as much with there 90% blue car...
__________________
Schuurspeed / Aero-model / Gear One / LG1
www.OHRCR.com
Gitsum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 05:20 AM   #4
Tech Elite
 
Drifting101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Melbourne, Aus
Posts: 2,199
Trader Rating: 8 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mild seven View Post
Here in Melbourne, Australia they have changed the min weight to 1425grams. They believe this is the way rc is going so they have made the change to be effective of jan 1st 2009.

I believe 1450 grams would of been a better min weight as its easier for some one with Nimh packs to get there car to that min weight.
Nope legal as of the 1st of Dec
__________________
::Mi4::17.5::::::M03R::HW 3000kv::::::T4::7.5::::::HB Cyclone D4::5.5::

"Why follow, when you can lead?"
Schumacher
Drifting101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 06:42 AM   #5
Tech Elite
 
sosidge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Bristol, UK
Posts: 3,865
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam? View Post
It seems like all of a sudden, we're trying to reduce the minimum weight rules for sedans. I see ROAR plans to make changes, Snowbirds has a much lower weight, and I think Novak as well?

So what's reasoning behind this? Is it to kill of NiMH? To benefit designs like the Type-R and E4? Is this really the best move, or is it change for the sake of change? And, finally, what's the new standard weight going to be?

One really nice thing about LiPo is that it gives just about any car the opportunity to be right at the legal weight limit without all kinds of crazy concessions, like titanium screws and LW bodies. With lighter batteries, wouldn't it make more sense to increase the durability of the cars (likely making them heavier)?
I think decisions to reduce weight limits in TC are a bit premature.

As it stands there is not one chassis on the market that has been designed for LiPo, everything out there has six slots in the chassis. We have just finished an IFMAR world championship where NiMH was the only cell used.

LiPo is still a very young technology in RC cars, really it is only during the course of the last year that people have started to look at it seriously, and I know a lot of people locally who either prefer the feel of their car with NiMH, or are not prepared to dump all their cells and buy new just because it is the latest trend.

To decrease weight limits now will just penalise NiMH users and only serve to split up the racing community - when what we really need now is a consensus. Electric on-road has too many classes, too many voltages, too many equivalencies already.
sosidge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 08:25 AM   #6
Tech Regular
 
Andy63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 398
Default

Minimum weight in sweden is 1400 and we use NiMh 5 cells.
We dont use LiPo in competitions.

My Kyosho SHIN has a weight of ~1350 fully tuned and i need to add some extra weight.
__________________
www.andrefossto.wordpress.com|HOBBYWING |YOKOMO |HBracing |MIBOSPORT.COM |Reservdelsrc.com |Jockeli-Painting |
Andy63 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 09:52 AM   #7
Tech Addict
 
Tubaboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Riverton, WY
Posts: 582
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sosidge View Post
I think decisions to reduce weight limits in TC are a bit premature.

As it stands there is not one chassis on the market that has been designed for LiPo, everything out there has six slots in the chassis. We have just finished an IFMAR world championship where NiMH was the only cell used.

LiPo is still a very young technology in RC cars, really it is only during the course of the last year that people have started to look at it seriously, and I know a lot of people locally who either prefer the feel of their car with NiMH, or are not prepared to dump all their cells and buy new just because it is the latest trend.

To decrease weight limits now will just penalise NiMH users and only serve to split up the racing community - when what we really need now is a consensus. Electric on-road has too many classes, too many voltages, too many equivalencies already.
In the U.S. this trend is a lot different then Europe, as most of Europe seems to be running 5 cell. (to which there is not an equivalent Lipo battery).

In the U.S., the majority of the drivers were using Lipo. I know some guys stayed with Nimh, primarily if they were going to run in Worlds since they had to run them there.

But overall, here in the U.S. at the national events it seems most of the drivers have already switched to Lipo.

I do find it amusing that you're complaining about the voltage differences, when it was the European block that introduced 5 cell.

I'm glad that ROAR was proactive and lowered the weight.

Paul
__________________
www.wyomingrc.com | www.wyomingmodelerspark.com
Tubaboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 10:12 AM   #8
Tech Champion
 
Davidka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 9,930
Trader Rating: 77 (100%+)
Default

Lower weight stands to benefit the car's durability, when you hit things the lower mass should translate into fewer broken parts. It will also reduce tire wear, assuming your track runs a spec tire/hardness, otherwise that's a wash, people will just use the next softer tire. Lipo is better in every way so it's time to embrace it. Races like worlds/nationals are irrelevant to the racers that buy the products and use them in club racing.
Davidka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 10:34 AM   #9
Tech Elite
 
SWTour's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central Coast...CALIF.
Posts: 2,873
Trader Rating: 9 (100%+)
Default

can't you run TC's the way FullScale on-road racing had handicaps for power and performance?

For instance, if a racer were to use the super light, but less powered $35.00 Orion 2400 LIPO vs a much higher priced, higher output SMC 5000 priced at $129.95 (priced at the top of this page in a STORMER HOBBIES ad) Give that combo the weight break difference in actual weight between those 2 packs.

In the On-Road racing I grew up watching (real cars) they always ran cars of different weights, and power...and handicapped them in some way to make them perform more equal on the track. Why shouldn't SCALE racing be similar...then RUN THEM Together.
__________________
Joe Myers
R/C Racing since 1985 ~ Santa Maria, CA (Central Coast)
2001-2012 - South-West Tour R/C Oval Series...will the SWT be revived?
Things are headed towards a return of the SWT Series, but for
2017 the focus will be on the Encino Velodrome (and dirt oval racing)
SWTour is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 11:03 AM   #10
Tech Elite
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: All 48 states...
Posts: 2,053
Trader Rating: 1 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SWTour View Post
can't you run TC's the way FullScale on-road racing had handicaps for power and performance?

For instance, if a racer were to use the super light, but less powered $35.00 Orion 2400 LIPO vs a much higher priced, higher output SMC 5000 priced at $129.95 (priced at the top of this page in a STORMER HOBBIES ad) Give that combo the weight break difference in actual weight between those 2 packs.

In the On-Road racing I grew up watching (real cars) they always ran cars of different weights, and power...and handicapped them in some way to make them perform more equal on the track. Why shouldn't SCALE racing be similar...then RUN THEM Together.
Kinda falls into the KISS principal....(Keep it simple stupid)....no pun intended..
__________________
Schuurspeed / Aero-model / Gear One / LG1
www.OHRCR.com
Gitsum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 11:28 AM   #11
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidka View Post
Lower weight stands to benefit the car's durability, when you hit things the lower mass should translate into fewer broken parts. It will also reduce tire wear, assuming your track runs a spec tire/hardness, otherwise that's a wash, people will just use the next softer tire. Lipo is better in every way so it's time to embrace it. Races like worlds/nationals are irrelevant to the racers that buy the products and use them in club racing.
That is offset a little by the fact that the cars will be faster at a lighter weight. It is amazing what big a difference two identical cars at 100g difference in weight can do to the speed. A lot more then I thought it would be!
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 11:31 AM   #12
Tech Elite
 
stitchy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,794
Trader Rating: 13 (100%+)
Default

As a BL lipo user, I'd like to see weight limits come down. To make weight I have to add strips upon strips of lead weights to my car (TA05 w/ tub chassis) and might even look to replacing my titanium screws back to steel (haha)

But in my few months of on-road racing, I've noticed that on-roaders love to scrutinize minutiae and b*tch and complain over every little thing. Foam, rubber, nimh, lipo, brushed, brushless, this body, that body... You're penalizing this group, that group. It's too expensive, etc. etc. etc...gah!

I do applaud ROAR for this though...
__________________
Speedtechhobbies.com
stitchy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 11:35 AM   #13
Tech Elite
 
revo61's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: In the dirty south
Posts: 2,877
Trader Rating: 18 (95%+)
Default

My club run lipo and brushless. 1525 is what we run and my tc5 almost 200 grams under, if I don't add lead. I wish ROAR would lower the minimum. 1525 is easier to get if you run nimh.
__________________
JQ The Car Black Edition/Reds R7E/Reds 2113 pipe
Airtronics MT44/Savox servos
Sidewinder Team Strike V2 30%
USA.JQRACING.COM / WWW.NEMORACINGUSA.COM
revo61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 11:39 AM   #14
Tech Champion
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 5,360
Trader Rating: 38 (100%+)
Default

I think people are over-looking the fact that most cars as they are designed today need the extra weight to balance them (since they were designed for nimh). If you lower the weight you are penalizing people with cars of that design (most except Losi and TM). Once I balance my TC5 I need to add very little additional weight to get to 1525g.
or8ital is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2008, 12:28 PM   #15
Tech Addict
 
Adam?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: ohhh, that guy...
Posts: 639
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by or8ital View Post
I think people are over-looking the fact that most cars as they are designed today need the extra weight to balance them (since they were designed for nimh). If you lower the weight you are penalizing people with cars of that design (most except Losi and TM). Once I balance my TC5 I need to add very little additional weight to get to 1525g.
Yep! And since the LiPos we use take up the same physical space as NiMH, it's not exactly feasible to move electronics around for balance like the 5 cell guys do.
Adam? is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yokomo MR-4 TC Thread Speedo Electric On-Road 2868 05-05-2015 03:38 PM
SVM SPEEDWAY.. Sun Valley, CA. RCRjuanabbe Racing Forum 5499 01-01-2015 01:03 AM
WTT: NEW SEALED Wii for R/C Heli, Plane, Car or Radio/Gear IDriveSlow R/C Items: For Sale/Trade 11 09-05-2007 05:38 PM
ROAR to 4 cell.... Advil Electric On-Road 1394 12-21-2006 10:50 PM
Where are the ROAR New Approvals? bvoltz Electric On-Road 201 11-23-2006 10:35 AM
IFMAR AGM in Collegno - Future of ISTC kentech Electric On-Road 751 08-04-2006 08:19 AM



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -7. It is currently 12:09 AM.


We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
Powered By: vBulletin v3.9.2.1
Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Advertise Content © 2001-2011 RCTech.net