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Old 12-01-2008, 05:21 PM   #46
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I say 17.5 and 10.5 in each class 12th and touring and maybe a 13.5 only for WGT

mod classes are way too thin and only the very top guys can hang on.

or 17.5 and 10.5 with a 10 seat invite for mod kinda like the reedy race idea...

winner of 10.5 bumps up next year.
I like this idea a lot, but which tires on the TCs are you thinking? Maybe these big races should decide to either be a rubber TC race or a foam TC race, and not both?
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Old 12-01-2008, 05:26 PM   #47
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I personally would like to see rubber tire. I say this because of the success of the Reedy race as it's a controlled tire, no tire warmers no sauce and they limit the number of tires that you're allowed. Again keeping the cost at a minium. IMO

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Old 12-01-2008, 05:53 PM   #48
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I like this idea a lot, but which tires on the TCs are you thinking? Maybe these big races should decide to either be a rubber TC race or a foam TC race, and not both?
it would be best to use Rubber tires...much cheaper all around for carpet races as well.

Rubber tire carpet + asphalt. 3 carpet races, 3 asphalt races. Champ is the one with best results over all on both surfaces, meaning best over all/all around driver.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:20 PM   #49
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My idea would be 6 race series 5 including these race
-Vegas
-Cleveland
-Reedy
-Snowbirds
-Roar asphalt nats
-Roar Carpet Nats
Carpet races the classes would be
-Mod Foam
-13.5 Foam
-Mod 1/12
-13.5 1/12
-Bonus class (Each race decide o the extra class they want TA, WGT, Cooper, what ever)
And for Asphalt it would be Rubber instead of foam...This would really show who has the skills on and off carpet racing...This kinda goes the other direction from the point I began with of less races but I think this would bring attendance up. Not less races because I feel theres not a race promoter willing to throw in the towel...Point would be
-+1 point for TQ
-100 win
-99 second, 98,97,96, and so forth
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:20 PM   #50
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not to mention that rubber tire racing will better prepare american racers for races like the IFMAR worlds...
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:21 PM   #51
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the reason I put 4 carpet races in there is because they all have the highest attendance would be stupid to drop one
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:29 PM   #52
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I'm planning on attending two of the three races listed below....

1)Roar Asphalt Nats.. this will be well atended since the host track already has a healthy onroad program
2)REEDY race of champions: this is one of the races where making the main has prestige...
3)Roar 1/8th onroad nats: Wasn't planning on this one but with U.S. being the host for the worlds next year I'm sure this will be one of the best nationals for onroad.....
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Old 12-01-2008, 07:59 PM   #53
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Just curious, attendance is down at events and now you want to tell people that only these few races selected count towards anything? Just because I chose to attend the Novak race and not the Cleveland race my attendance doesn't mean much? I fail to see the direction that you are going.

Also, where are these racers that can afford to go to all of these events? The only ones that I know are the full factory guys.
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:00 PM   #54
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It seems to me that this theory that we have to many races and a dropping number of racers, is a bit off.


It seems to me that 7 or 8 "major" races a year with 150 - 250 entries each beats 3 "Major" races with 350 - 400 entries each in more ways than one.

No one is being forced to attended these races. Therefore we can go when and where we choose (and can afford). This being the case, doesn't the increased number of "Major" races simply present more opportunity for racers to have the "big Race" experience? Doesn't this also create more opportunity for manufactures to test, promote, and showcase new and better products? Doesn't this also create more opportunity for spectators (new potential racers) to experience this sport and possibly choose to join in?

I think its natural for people to look back at "the good old days" (in this case the 90's) and remember the highlights while longing to have certain aspects of the past brought through time and splash down into the present. I think people have always done this. I think this scenario (people longing for races with 400 plus entries) is not much different than a group of old school guys longing for the return of brush motors so they can blow the dust off their lathes. (trust me its coming )

It seems to me that the only "bad" thing about having so many great "major" races to choose from is that apparently people are confusing this time period in our sports growth (a period in which people are a bit spread out) for a bad thing. I truly believe that the number of hobbyist is not in the rapid decline that some believe. I just think that the number of venue operators and race promoters are a bit ahead of the game here in the US. I also believe that the number of racers will indeed catch up and we will see a time when we have 10 - 15 "major" races with 300 or more entries each every year. It will take time, but I can see it.

One thing is for sure, we have got to get a positive outlook on the future if we are ever to get there with positive results.
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Old 12-01-2008, 10:58 PM   #55
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Just curious, attendance is down at events and now you want to tell people that only these few races selected count towards anything? Just because I chose to attend the Novak race and not the Cleveland race my attendance doesn't mean much? I fail to see the direction that you are going.

Also, where are these racers that can afford to go to all of these events? The only ones that I know are the full factory guys.

I'm just giving input on how I decide to spend my money for travel races.
In regards to the reedy race having more meaning. Well, I just like the fact that If you see 120 or 150 signed up. that you will get at least 40 people in a class just because they limit the classes making it more exciting to attend. IMO
I'm sure your criteria will be different for which race you decide to go to.
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Old 12-02-2008, 03:52 AM   #56
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Interesting discussion. Coming from Europe let me tell you this is a discussion that surfaces there every once in a while too.

Here's some food for throught. If the lowest class is too fast and difficult to get some level of grip, newbies won't attend (or only once).

Second, if you have a lot of classes you also have more people finishing last (or thereabouts). Now I don't know about you, but finishing last once is ok, makes me try harder. Finishing last every time (with 20 drivers differences are allways bigger and harder to overcome) will simply mean I stop attending. So more classes also means more potential outflow of drivers. So with more classes you also need more inflow of newbies to compensate. But then with many classes they are the ones who are most likely to finish last aren't they...

There is another problem too. If you only race against 20 other drivers differences will be bigger and therefore the winner will not have been pushed to give his/her best. Not a good platform to practice to become the best of the World in my opinion. The US has some really great drivers but I think they could do with more competition at home. The talent is there but they may not be forced to use all of it often enough. Besides, some of that talent gets stuck in one of the many other classes (they easily win there after all) and never move to the top class and spend the 2-5 years it usually takes to close the gap to the top (assuming they can).

With less classes you stimulate talents to move up, improve the competition and most importantly, improve the enjoyment for all. Personally I prefer to have a big fight in the H-Final with 2 or 3 drivers that finish within 1 or 2 seconds of each other to coming in 3rd in the B-Final with number 2 being half a lap up and number four half a lap down every race I go to.

Add to this the economic situation changing the cost-benefit equation even further towards cost outweighing benefit and it is easy to understand why attendance as well as total number of drivers are declining.
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Old 12-02-2008, 05:05 AM   #57
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Personally, I can see both sides of the coin here.

Plus points: Each major race has it's own "pedigree" to it, wether that be the place it's held, or the racers it attracts. Having good drivers attend raises the bar for the less experienced to try and beat.

Hopefully racers can all go to a big event and learn something new from it too- it's not just the final result they go home with that is the be all and end all of the meeting.

Negative points: well, already explained really, I guess. Too many cooks spoil the broth so the saying goes- Too many events and the attendance gets thinned out.

Also, there is the publicity of major brands or other associations that support a given series, these names will also help the economics of racing and promote their business, and r/c in general.

All the time a popular event remains popular (and advertised), it will do well
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:00 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Kraig View Post
Just curious, attendance is down at events and now you want to tell people that only these few races selected count towards anything? Just because I chose to attend the Novak race and not the Cleveland race my attendance doesn't mean much? I fail to see the direction that you are going.

Also, where are these racers that can afford to go to all of these events? The only ones that I know are the full factory guys.

Honestly, there are more people willing to fork out the $$ for these races than you think. With over 400 plus entries at the Snowbirds...do you think even 80% of them are factory? Probably not. People will spend what they need to spend to race...heck...even un-employed racers find the $$ somehow to race. It is an addicting drug that we all love..it will take a lot to stop us from racing.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:48 AM   #59
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It's called the RC Pro Series ( didn't read the entire thread , so if it was mentioned, I apologize) run by Carlton Epps. You race a couple regional events, and then one big National event to determine a winner.

99% of the racers are your average Joe ( work, family, more work) and rc cars are a hobby, not a career. And, can't make it to these huge events on the other side of the States. Having to dump $1500 on 5 days of playing with a toy car just isn't a reality for alot of people, even more so with the economy the way it is.

I'll agree that there are way too many big races ( everyone wants a piece of the pie) , and now, too many classes. However, with rubber tire picking up in a lot of areas, new carpet that offers more traction, I wouldn't be surprised if foam tire classes ( except 1/12) are obsolete in a couple years.

Stock rubber sedan, mod rubber sedan , 1/12 17.5, WGT spec class, usvta spec class.
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Old 12-02-2008, 07:53 AM   #60
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Sure most racers are your average Joe's (or Joe the Plumber? ;-) ) but then this was true when these big events were filled to the brim too. So not sure this means there are too many. Besides, if average Joe is not able to attend events far away it stands to reason you would want at least one major event a year reasonably close. With a country as large as the US this means at least 10 major events a year to allow all average Joe's to have the experience at least once right?
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