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Old 12-20-2008, 10:36 AM   #106
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Racers are building BMI, Associated and Corally Cars for SCAR! The Orion Battery will fit in these cars with a few minor Modifications.

BMI pictured

This is what we've decided to run, No arguing - just sharing information. Spec Racing is not for everyone.
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Lipo in World GT Racing-bmibatteryscar.jpg   Lipo in World GT Racing-bmidb10r-lipo.jpg  
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Old 12-20-2008, 11:06 AM   #107
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And no 10R5's
Bull hockey!
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Old 12-20-2008, 01:54 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Arboleda View Post
This is a silly argument. Of course something better will follow lipo. And something better will follow that.

This is like saying (for gas mileage anyway) that hybrid cars are not the future because something better will eventually follow them. But whatever follows hybrid is not the future either because something even better will come out after that!
Well thanks for that! However, you take my point - the future is undecided - whereas there are people on here telling me I have to go LiPo because it is the future.

I have decided not to go LiPo because I do not wish to invest in this technology, in the same way I would not invest in the current hybrid cars. Yet here we are with these LiPo-loopy morons trying to change the Rules so I have to run LiPo! You soned much more sensible than they are...

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Originally Posted by MAD916 View Post
+1 arbolde... very good point.


Slower one.... very lame response. I thing every one is just trying to avoid with Lipo is having to packing around a CTX-D, Another Charger, and a Novak Smart Tray, and all the friken BS that goes with it.

This last weekend at SIR I ran WGT and the first charges on two of my older Energy 4600 went to 140 degrees, and sure made me nervous...


Regardles off the future, we have a current technology approved by ROAR and other promoters, and can be used in our TC',s.....
I am sure they are trying to avoid it, but I already have it and I can use it very easily. As stated above, I don't want to invest in LiPo because it is not doing me any good, and I'd rather wait for the next generation and see if that is any better.

As the Rules currently allow for voltage up to 4.8v, then let's stick to that. Do as you wish at your Club - if it's getting drivers in, do it!! - but all I ask is that people do not drive out the majority of (NiMh) drivers by changing Rules that will not be good for the future.

I'm just trying to ensure that people who haven't the experience of change in RC understand that there is nothing wrong with what we have, and jumping ship to something else may be transient, and only here for a short space of time. More importantly, they should not invest in something else just because they think Rules might change, when they probably won't.
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:16 PM   #109
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This is where all these arguments go belly-up. LiPo is NOT, repeat NOT, the future. All the major users of batteries might be trying to see what market advantage they can get from new technology, but no one in the automotive, power tool, or any other high-drain application, is doing anything with LiPo.

They are pursuing A123 and like technologies, Panasonic are looking to their own 2.4v/cell technologies, and rumours abound that Sony have something new on the stocks. LiPo is a simply way of people avoiding the problems wrought on us by IB a couple of years back.

You have the Rules - max 4.8v. If you want to try and persuade people to drop a volt, or have to buy new motors to use this technology, go ahead. But please - please - stop trying to sell it as the future. Nothing could be further from the truth as LiPo is, at best, a stop-gap.
funny thing, no one in the automotive, power tool or any other high drain applications was or is doing anything with Nimh, but yet they were around for years and years and only improved over the years, until the little problem with a bad batch from IB, which is no longer a issue. Which is why some on the lower end of the scale prefer lipo, but for most, lipo is just easier to use, maintain, store, and thats why it will be the future.....for now. As soon as something comes out that proven better we will all jump on board cause thats what we do.

whether or not lipo is the future only time will tell, but i think we can almost all agree, nimh may be the past
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Old 12-20-2008, 05:53 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by SlowerOne View Post
This is where all these arguments go belly-up. LiPo is NOT, repeat NOT, the future. All the major users of batteries might be trying to see what market advantage they can get from new technology, but no one in the automotive, power tool, or any other high-drain application, is doing anything with LiPo.

They are pursuing A123 and like technologies, Panasonic are looking to their own 2.4v/cell technologies, and rumours abound that Sony have something new on the stocks. LiPo is a simply way of people avoiding the problems wrought on us by IB a couple of years back.

You have the Rules - max 4.8v. If you want to try and persuade people to drop a volt, or have to buy new motors to use this technology, go ahead. But please - please - stop trying to sell it as the future. Nothing could be further from the truth as LiPo is, at best, a stop-gap.
A123 won't be able to compete with LiPo in RC until they get the voltage up to where LiPo and NiMh are at the moment. The Panasonic cells are probably a better step voltage wise but they're also a long way off.

Yes, some chemistry will eventually replace LiPo but it is what it is. LiPo is here now and will be here for a long time to come.

If it wasn't for those stupid looking GT bodies the 10th pan class might have actually caught on this time.
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Old 12-20-2008, 07:50 PM   #111
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SCAR stands for Spec Canadian Auto Racing.

This Class is being introduced in 2009 at the RROL Home Depot Asphalt Track in London Ontario Canada. A SCAR CRC GenX10 was tested at the last couple of races in 2008.

We have twenty cars signed up so far. We will also be running SCAR at Lou's Speedway, a new Carpet Track opening in the London Area in January. We'll have SCAR Road Racing as well as a SCAR Oval Class which will require the HPI Stock Car Bodies.

We will be awarding 6 Simpson Home Depot Helmets to the Series Champions including the Top 3 Rookies.

Here are the Rules.

SCAR! - 2009 Rules 6 Minute Races
1/ 200MM Pan Car Chassis
2/ Minimum Weight - 1,000 Grams
3/ ORION 2400 LIPO Battery
4/ NOVAK 17.5 Brushless Motor
5/ Tires -SCAR will be restricted to JACO / CRC Spec Tires.
Jaco Part Numbers - JAC2100 Front - JAC2110 Rear
CRC Part Numbers - CRC2300 Front - CRC2302 Rear
6/ HPI GT Body - based on Street Legal Sports Cars - 47 to choose from. Cars must be Numbered and Lettered and you are encouraged painting it to resemble a real race car.

Chevrolet Corvette #1703 or 7039
Chev Camaro #7460
Chev Monte Carlo #7430
Pontiac Trans Am #7447
Dodge Viper #7473 or #7419
Ford Taurus #7417
Ford Mustang GTR #17504
Ford GT #7495
Saleen Mustang #7428
BMW 328 #7421
BMW M Coupe #7432
BMW M3 GT #7452
Porsche 911 #7435 or #7418 or #7638
Porsche Carrera GT #7487
Mazda RX-7 #7482
Mazda RX-8 #7488
Toyota Supra Gt #7486 or 7424
Toyota Celica #7440
Toyota Soarer #17524
Toyota MR-SGT #7466
Audi TT #7423
Mercedes Benz GTR #7046
Mercedes CLK DTM #7457
Lotus Ellse #7476
Nissan 350Z #17518 or #7485
Nissan Skyline #7467 & #7427
Nissan Silvia #17530 or #7479
Mitsubishi Eclipse #7451 or #7431
Honda NSX #7483
Honda S2000 #1750
Honda Prelude #7449
Subaru Impreza #17525 & #17505
Lexus IS200 #17516
Lexus GS400 #7455
NASCAR Stocker #17513
Pictures here - Note not all pictured bodies are legal http://www.hpiracing.com/hpibodies/200mm/

One motor and one battery should last you the 2009 season and perhaps beyond. No worry about having to buy the Motor of the Week or Battery of the Week. Concentrate on improving your skills without draining your wallet.

More SCAR information here - http://forums.londonrc.com/showthread.php?t=23796

Awesome, six simple easy to follow, easy to tech rules.

Dave
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Old 12-20-2008, 10:11 PM   #112
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and no 10R5...
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Old 12-21-2008, 04:06 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by skypilot View Post
funny thing, no one in the automotive, power tool or any other high drain applications was or is doing anything with Nimh
If I am not mistaken, Ford's Hybrid system used in the Escape Hybrid and new Fusion Hybrid uses/stores battery power from 200+ NiMh, D-sized cells.
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:27 AM   #114
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If I am not mistaken, Ford's Hybrid system used in the Escape Hybrid and new Fusion Hybrid uses/stores battery power from 200+ NiMh, D-sized cells.
Anybody found a Novak Smart tray for it?

See I knew it Nihms are the future!!!!
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Old 12-21-2008, 06:40 AM   #115
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Panasonic 2.4V? Where did you see them? Do you have a link?
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Old 12-21-2008, 07:43 AM   #116
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Default Well just look at the Tesla Roadster

The Tesla roadster uses Lipo technology.

http://www.teslamotors.com/

yes its a stop-gap - but I also agree - while Lipo has a set of problems - it will work for a while until the next improvement comes along. NiMh is a dead end - Lipo will have a few years and be the next dead end.

The days of batteries being the domain of teams with deep pockets and the "good" packs never being available to the public - are 'ALMOST' over(not really). Lipo bats get us to the same playing field - If my(anyones) driving skills EVER got to the level where I(they) was ONLY being beat because of equipment - the factory teams would already be giving you a ride to GET that better equipment to you and another notch in the adverts.

Nimh days wouldn't let you get to the same field.
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:42 PM   #117
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Associated 200MM Stick LIPO Layout for SCAR
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Old 12-21-2008, 12:45 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kn7671 View Post
If I am not mistaken, Ford's Hybrid system used in the Escape Hybrid and new Fusion Hybrid uses/stores battery power from 200+ NiMh, D-sized cells.
The Ford Motor Company does that because there is an overflow of unused NiMh cells not being used and they got them very cheap.
General Motors on the other hand is going to use in house cells for the new Volt that is comming in '09... i hope
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:01 PM   #119
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Nimh days wouldn't let you get to the same field.
Which is not the case today. Just buy reasonable matched cells, and then get on with it! For the World GT class running 13.5 motors, the Orion SHO cells available in Europe (but not in the USA, I believe) are just like using LiPo - I charge, use, charge, use, charge...

Someone who has done this for over a year has cells still working well enough to give me a good thrashing at the track!

Part of the problem with the LiPo users is assuming that nothign has changed in the last two years. With the availability of EnerG cells (12th Mod) and these Orion SHO cells (anything 10.5 or above BL) there is no need for LiPo as using them is the same as using LiPo.

Sure, they give you that last bit if you do the balancing thing before charging, but there's no necessity to do that any more. LiPo is now a long way from being the answer to cells in RC, because it has all sorts of compromises on adding weight (TC, Off Road) or losing handling (12th and WGT).

I'm sure that people who want their life made ever-so slightly easier, and marginally cheaper, are still going to push LiPo, but considering the relative costs against the money spent on motors and speedos and tyres, it really isn't enough to make me abandon my investment (over many years) in my chargers for NiMh.

It is, as you say, a transient technology. The next technology will be as transient, but eventually one will come along that doesn't have anything like the compromises LiPo has, and then it'll be time to change.
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Old 12-21-2008, 01:25 PM   #120
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ONE OF THE REASONS I GOT THE FRIGGIN 12R5 And 10R5 WAS FOR THE CONVIENENCE OF HAVING BATTERIES FOR BOTH OF THEM >>> IDENTICAL>>>> NOT TO BASTERDIZE A WELL SET UP CAR > WTF MAN>>>
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