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Old 12-01-2008, 11:21 AM   #16
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Tim Tim Tim,that is where your wrong too.The Lipo rule is a local thing not associated with the BBR series or World GT in general.Is it you feel in as shown in almost every post from you as of lately,you feel you have to interject so you can make yourself feel like you know better then everyone else?You hardly EVER race.Your cred is minimal to be honest my friend.Know your facts before you speak.

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sorry the one lipos rules is only for world GT not the BBR searies right now i will not run the world GT with the one lipo rules.
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Old 12-01-2008, 11:52 AM   #17
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Mixing lipo and NMHD in World GT does not work the way it has been tried so far. Even though the Orion 2400 pack makes it a little closer, 7.4 volts is still 7.4 volts and the pack doesn't fade enough to make the power equal at any point in the race. I think the only chance for lipo to work is if the single cell battery, in combination with some particular wind motor, comes out equal or at least a lot closer in power and handling to the 4 cell cars.

Ultimately the class should use only one power train combination, there's no way having different combos in the same race will be equal on all tracks. The point is to preserve the class as it is: fast enough to be fun, slow enough to promote close racing. Right now the only combination that does that is 4 cell 13.5
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Old 12-01-2008, 12:39 PM   #18
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I run at the same track that mixes the group up between LiPo and 4cell...The LiPo guy ended up running 6 cells and a 27T brushed motor by the end of the summer to balance out his car (Old AE like mine)...Bottom line is this track is doing it open just to keep this class fun....there is always laughing and joking going on the stand.... Even in Cleveland this weekend it was a fun class judged by what I saw...
At the end of the all I would prefer to keep the power plant options to just the 13.5 4 cell.....it just works..
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Old 12-01-2008, 12:49 PM   #19
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In the Provo / Salt Lake City area of Utah we've started our indoor carpet racing season and 1/10th pan is probably the fastest growing class. I believe we had 9 entrants on Saturday (that's good for us). The only larger class was 13.5 rubber.

We are running 13.5 / lipo in 1/10th pan and most people are running the CRC Generation X 10 to achieve this though I believe a few people did some dremel work on the associated car to get lipos in there.

We're running lipo because many of the local racers are sick of dealing with nickels. I raced the class on Saturday and used one Orion 4800 throughout the day. Between heats I just topped it off. Lipo is bliss!

If someone wanted to run 4-Cell we'd probably have them run a 10.5 motor to equal things out.
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Old 12-01-2008, 12:53 PM   #20
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Where is the track in the SLC area? When do you race? Would like to come race sometime. Any 12th scale there?
We tried the lipo 13.5 and thought it was too fast for a carpet track.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:55 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by scootr117 View Post
I run at the same track that mixes the group up between LiPo and 4cell...The LiPo guy ended up running 6 cells and a 27T brushed motor by the end of the summer to balance out his car (Old AE like mine)...Bottom line is this track is doing it open just to keep this class fun....there is always laughing and joking going on the stand.... Even in Cleveland this weekend it was a fun class judged by what I saw...
At the end of the all I would prefer to keep the power plant options to just the 13.5 4 cell.....it just works..
There is just no way to get equality between a car powered with 7.4 volts and a car powered with 4.8 volts. Itís just too big of a disparity. We tried all kinds of combinations with lipo powered World GT chassis and the closest thing we got to was an Orion 2400 lipo with a 17.5. The only reason we settled on the Orion 2400 is that during a six minute race, not five, the Orion 2400 will tail off but not enough and that combination will still blow by a 13.5 4 cell on the straight like it was painted on the Armco!!! There is no substitute for volts. While I do like lipos and the ease of maintenance, there is no way to find an equivalency factor that will allow the two battery types to complete. I have ordered an SMC single cell lipo and as soon as the Novak voltage booster is available, I will try to find a motor that will compliment that battery and still be equal to a 13.5 4 cell but I am not hopeful. At big races like Cleveland, IIC in Vegas, Snowbirds and National events, you run 13.5 4 cell. On a local level, you may have to have two classes, World GT lipo and World GT 4 cell. Run them on the track at the same time but with two winners.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:55 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by scootr117 View Post
I run at the same track that mixes the group up between LiPo and 4cell...The LiPo guy ended up running 6 cells and a 27T brushed motor by the end of the summer to balance out his car (Old AE like mine)...Bottom line is this track is doing it open just to keep this class fun....there is always laughing and joking going on the stand.... Even in Cleveland this weekend it was a fun class judged by what I saw...
At the end of the all I would prefer to keep the power plant options to just the 13.5 4 cell.....it just works..
There is just no way to get equality between a car powered with 7.4 volts and a car powered with 4.8 volts. Itís just too big of a disparity. We tried all kinds of combinations with lipo powered World GT chassis and the closest thing we got to was an Orion 2400 lipo with a 17.5. The only reason we settled on the Orion 2400 is that during a six minute race, not five, the Orion 2400 will tail off but not enough and that combination will still blow by a 13.5 4 cell on the straight like it was painted on the Armco!!! There is no substitute for volts. While I do like lipos and the ease of maintenance, there is no way to find an equivalency factor that will allow the two battery types to complete. I have ordered an SMC single cell lipo and as soon as the Novak voltage booster is available, I will try to find a motor that will compliment that battery and still be equal to a 13.5 4 cell but I am not hopeful. At big races like Cleveland, IIC in Vegas, Snowbirds and National events, you run 13.5 4 cell. On a local level, you may have to have two classes, World GT lipo and World GT 4 cell. Run them on the track at the same time but with two winners.
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Old 12-01-2008, 01:58 PM   #23
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Well single cell lipo seems to be the way to go. Just match a motor to the 13.5 and all is well. It works in 12th scale.
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:02 PM   #24
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Here is my take on the future of this class. With the lower mainetance required for brushless motors and lipo batteries, I think we can help grow this class by leaps and bounds if we find a way to incorporate lipo batteries. I know a lot of guys disagree with lipos being "low maintenance" but in my experience I have to do a lot less work during a race day when I'm only running lipo batteries. Also, with the constant tuning/tweaking/fixing of expensive touring cars, WGT can be a more "cost effecient" way to race and the designs are much more simple than a top-level TC thus easier to tune and repair. From what I can tell, there are a lot of people who are looking to run something besides touring cars but hesitate to run any kind of pan car class because of the "tasks" associated with running Ni-mh cells. I know there is not a perfect solution that will allow for exact times with different battery/motor combinations, but all the info provided so far seems to coincide with what we found this past summer. 7.4v/17.5 is pretty dang close to 4-cell/13.5. I know my local club will allow us to run what ever we choose and what ever keeps us coming back. For me, I think the "4-cell replacement" is going to be a single cell SMC pack and a booster then I'll just have to find the correct motor to run (probably a 10.5). Thanks for everyone who posted, the info was greatly appreciated!!
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Old 12-01-2008, 02:54 PM   #25
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Around my area 1/10th pan seems to be picking up. There is a class starting up called SCAR using 17.5 Novak motors, 2400 Orion LiPo batteries and HPI bodies only. The class has about 20 guys so far with more and more people getting interested in the class.
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Old 12-01-2008, 03:34 PM   #26
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i love the fact that this topic has risen to the top. i started running wgt after i returned from I.I.C. there are 5 or six other guys that i run with. we all agreed to run lipo and 17.5 to try and keep it simple. i would have never started running it without the lipo exemption at our track. i have countless laps with that combo. i was running the handout orion motor from rubber tc in vegas, and a 3800 orion lipo. my recent plans have changed to include some major races this year where i will run by the wgt rules. so i have changed my car over to 4 cell, 13.5. my lap time have fallen off by .4 to .5 per lap. there is an obvious difference in the performance of the car.

lipo is the direction that the entire industry is shifting. even the big nimh people know this (as evidenced by danny's full forward push in the lipo market). world gt is a class that has endless potential and the fact that there were 5 heats in cleveland shows the interest is there. if lipo would be allowed (at a big race level), i think you would see even more. those manufacturers who are not building lipo friendly cars are missing the boat. the problem is that those are the people who will fight tooth and nail to keep lipo out of wgt due to the fact that their cars will be at a disadvantage.

sorry for the long post, but as you can tell, i love the class, and want to make it easier for more people to enjoy.
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Old 12-01-2008, 06:00 PM   #27
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I am enjoying the WGT car as well. I have run both 13.5 4 cell and 17.5 7.4v LiPo, the 7.4v Lipo is much faster. But I do like the idea of the single cell LiPo. Talk about reducing cost! Just one $50 battery.

Anyway, does anyone know when we might see the voltage booster speed controls?
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Old 12-01-2008, 08:40 PM   #28
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I've ordered my 3.7 lipo - hopefully it will be here for the sunday races.I'm running a novak 13.5 with at GTB. What about this booster thing you guys are talking about.I did not see anything on the Novak site.Am I going to need to run a reciever pack with this set-up?
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Old 12-01-2008, 09:46 PM   #29
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TheOtherBill (AKA Big Bill),

For now, NorCal is limiting my lipo battery to the discontinued Orion 2400. You should be able to find it for $35-40. Just one will do because I run the same battery over and over.

Your learning curve will be quite short with brushless and lipo. Just practice, practice, practice...to your heart's content.

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Bill,

We started running the 7.4 / 17.5 vs 13.5 4 cell and found they were a bit faster. We were able to gear down the 17.5 to around a 2.2 rollout and it was close. Next...I just put in a 21.5 and ran some laps against a 13.5 and was getting caught on the straights...not by much though. I switched to a better battery then the Orion 3600 (Trinity 3800) and it was even closer. I think the 21.5 can compete with very good packs. Have you done any testing with 21.5??

Even though a 21.5 may be a tick slower, it's better IMO for a track to allow the option (as long as the option doesn't out pace the class std. 13.5 4cell) for those that are done with NiMh.
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Old 12-02-2008, 06:10 AM   #30
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Our local BRR race series rules in Northern California allowed 13.5/4-cell or 17.5/lipo. Recently, the lipos were limited to Orion 2400 packs.
Bill, I went with a BMI car so the Orion 2400s wont work for me. I was able to find 2200 and 3000 MaxAmps Saddle packs that will work in the BMI with their LiPo plate. Iam waiting for the car and ALL of the related equipment to come in the mail this week(I hope) and then I will have a better idea of what will work with this car and what wont. You have seen me drive, so the practice, practice and more practice you mentioned in your other post will work out good And if I had to run the stone-age 4 cell comb. for the BBR series that would be cool too.
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