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Old 12-12-2008, 02:42 AM   #91
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The title of this thread is Lipo Rating System. I think this thread was intended to see if Extreme RC would be interested in doing a fair test on C rate claims. Atleast this is what I think.

Now it seems like everyone wants there own specific test and setup which is different than C rate testing.

There is a standard way to test for C rate and I think this is what should be done.

I can pass allot of valuable info on this subject as I talk to a Lipo engineer frequently.

For those who just want numbers off a GFX this is very easy to get and anyone with a GFX can give you numbers.

I think it's time to see who offers the real deal but this doesn't seem to get through as now were talking about max amp draw in a car and other types of measurements.

Since Joel started this thread he should elaborate as to what he wants as far as a test.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:22 AM   #92
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Im only intrested in seeing DATA for ROAR approved racing packs... But once the ability is there to do shoot outs, we could see ROAR tests and tests for all the rest.
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Old 12-12-2008, 05:36 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
The title of this thread is Lipo Rating System. I think this thread was intended to see if Extreme RC would be interested in doing a fair test on C rate claims. Atleast this is what I think.

Now it seems like everyone wants there own specific test and setup which is different than C rate testing.

There is a standard way to test for C rate and I think this is what should be done.

I can pass allot of valuable info on this subject as I talk to a Lipo engineer frequently.

For those who just want numbers off a GFX this is very easy to get and anyone with a GFX can give you numbers.

I think it's time to see who offers the real deal but this doesn't seem to get through as now were talking about max amp draw in a car and other types of measurements.

Since Joel started this thread he should elaborate as to what he wants as far as a test.
Thanks Danny

I am an onroad racer, and i would say its safe to say that the fast majority of onroad racers are using ROAR approved lipos. I want a shoot out that will take the ROAR packs and confirm on an Annual or Bi-Annual Lipo shoot out. I would like the test to include the following:
-ROAR legal packs
-All dimensions
-Weight
-street price
-C rating using a STANDARD C rating methode
-mah rating
-average discharge voltage
-average discharge voltage accross a 5minute race or 6minute if ROAR goes that route
-IR
-charge and discharge time
-CASE drop test
-cost vs performance comparison.

These are real numbers that racer have come to understand and can make educated choises based on these numbers... Some of the suggestions here are over the top and really so hard to accomplish. track testing is pointless its not repeatable. Testing with 10 different motors is pointless, no two motors are the same. Cost,time to many variables rule out some of these tests.

This idea came from the fact that Danny has seen that there are packs out there sporting lables that claim false info.... And you know what thats ok, If a pack is calling it self 5000mah and 40C and its really a 4900 at 30C but cost 60$ thats not really a big deal,heck i want one!! LOL But if they are charging 120$ while another 120$ is actually producing those numbers i need to know this before i spend money.

For the most part ROAR packs is all im intrested in, obviously they are used by more then recers but all i care is about racing, ROAR forces some sort of standards with lipos. perhaps not enough standards but its a start. I really dont care about a tin foil wrapped pack, even if its better then a hard cased pack. I canot use not want to use a tin foil pack.

I want XTREME my favorite rc mag to do this test. Becuase i feel they have a no BS attitude about racing. They dont seem to suck asses as much as the other mags out there, plus they already set the standard for testing nitro engines. So we know they are capable.
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Old 12-12-2008, 01:54 PM   #94
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Joel sounds like a good test and I hope they will step up and do a good test. I will be doing my own tests with my new equipment. As a racer not a company owner I find it completely unacceptable what some are getting away with when labeling there packs.
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Old 12-12-2008, 09:08 PM   #95
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So much talk and so few real numbers... side to side average voltage numbers at currents and times --> similar to 17.5 and 13.5 races<--

THAT IS WHAT MANY PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO SEE
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:30 PM   #96
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I am testing some ni-mh AA's and I am working on a website to place the results. (First "alpha" version: http://batterylab.net). I am now cycling all the batteries to see what they do after 50 cycles (except the GP Recyko which died after 40 cycles).
I am also going to test 18650 li-ions and was thinking about sub C types or other rc batteries, that is why I ended up here.

But I do not have any knowledge of rc stuff, so some questions:
Can someone point me to some interesting batteries to test?
And you're only interested in lipo?
This suggest there are already test for ni-mh sub C, can someone maybe give me a link? (could not find..)

I have a CBA II, which can do 150 watt for a few minutes and 100 watt continuous. For testing one cell this gives something like 25-30A for a 4,2V lipo. This is enough I guess. (a 500 watt amplifier is quite expensive... at least for a student) Cycling can maybe be done using some self made electronic which starts/stops a charger/the CBA, I think I know someone who can make something.
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:41 PM   #97
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http://www.roarracing.com/approvals/lipobattery.php

List of current ROAR legal lipos that are relevant to the topic.

Currently 35AMP discharge is the norm, for cycling/matching of nihms cells and SMC is the only one also using it on there LIPO packs
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:57 PM   #98
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Thanks.
But these lipos are quite expense, and my limit at the moment is 100 watt, so never mind.
Too expensive.
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:43 PM   #99
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My first goal is to do the simple....test C rating and MAH. Nothing more than that really is in the "to do" list since most are asking for "tell me which battery works best for me in a specific environment"
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Old 12-16-2008, 02:31 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
My first goal is to do the simple....test C rating and MAH. Nothing more than that really is in the "to do" list since most are asking for "tell me which battery works best for me in a specific environment"
Add to that average voltage at 30-35amps and most would be happy. You'll be discharging anyway to get the MAH rating so why not grab the average voltage as well..



Im not sure why there are all these strange requsts:
-peak amps at half throttle using rubber tires, on a grass track,with a 17.5,with a head wind of 30mph, using a left handed controler.


I mean common guys we need a simple standard that is repeatable over and over. It does not matter what the application is if you hit some key standard tests to get what a pack is able to do during a typical race time. In most cases our batteries are far from our weakest link on the track.
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Old 01-12-2009, 10:15 AM   #101
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Battery races, great I like it.

How about a straight 35 amp constant current?
Does anyone use connectors?
Is there a balance tap to pick off the voltage at the cell during the discharge?

If there are no connectors used and no taps and is desired to test "packs" then we are forced to pick the voltage from the same wire leads as the discharge?

I suppose it won't matter as long as it is the same for all packs to be fair.

Hmm, upon inspection of some packs it appears thet some have leads, some have female jacks, some have balance taps and some just a balance port for the adjacent cell connection. It may be hard to get a fair comparion with all the different configs.
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Old 01-17-2009, 07:39 AM   #102
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It would not be hard. You test them with the plugs they come with, if one comes with a tamiya connector and it fails to perform so be it. If one dominates with deans so be it. Fact of the matter is there are claims being made that are being proven to be false...


The test could be as simple as 30 packs getting hit with a 6amp charge 35amp dump and post the results, but i figure if a magazine is going to do this they may want to add more "meat" to the story.


It amazes me with the huge amount of bench racers we have on this forum that this topic has not taken off. Probably the number one item that makes us go fast in racing and barely a response for such a very important shootout..... Wouldn't it be cool to find out that a 30$ lipo can really hang with a 140$ lipo? We can Bench race all we want but until a real shoot out or test gets done all we got is advertised claims......


BUMP! BUMP!
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Old 01-17-2009, 10:07 AM   #103
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Quote:
Probably the number one item that makes us go fast in racing and barely a response for such a very important shootout..... Wouldn't it be cool to find out that a 30$ lipo can really hang with a 140$ lipo?
IMHO - Part of the problem might be...NOT EVERYBODY is looking to "Go Fast" in racing...just faster than the other guy. It's a relative idea!

So with that idea in mind...if a group of racers (just regular old NON Traveling...stay at home sportsman level common NON Sponsored Racers) all choose to use a $30.00 LIPO they can have some great racing, and they don't even worry or think about the "C" Rating being WRONG or BOGUS or none of those issues.

All they know is:

RACING is Easy w/ LIPOS
RACING isn't about having "The Best" or "Highest" number on your battery pack
RACING is about beating the other guy, Not out $pending him.
RACING is FUN again
RACING isn't their LIFE

They Charge, Run, Recharge, Run, Recharge, Run and have a good day of FUN with their friends...and get that 'THRILL' of competition.

....there's a reason why cars like the "LOSI RTR" cars have been very popular with a lot of OLD TIME R/C'ers too. CHEAP, EASY and EQUAL! w/o all the B.S. of worrying about His sticker numbers being better than the next guys.

For the UPPER end racer, the "SHOOTOUT" testing isn't needed. They don't usually read the magazines. THEY are already pretty much going to know how different stuff performs from their own or from their SPONSORS testing. And, if they are 100% sponsored...then they'll just run what their TOLD anyway.
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Old 01-17-2009, 02:19 PM   #104
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Simple Question

Hasn't ROAR verified 'distributors' claims before including the pack on the ROAR list?

I very much doubt if they would .... but can't ROAR publish their test results on each battery + the ones that failed!
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Old 01-17-2009, 03:38 PM   #105
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I think all ROAR is really concerned with is

A) SIZE
B) SAFETY

They don't rate, they just approve if all the spec standards are met.

They don't have a "C" rating MIN or MAX I don't believe.
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