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Old 11-28-2008, 10:37 PM   #61
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Sorry people but any 7.4v lipo 5000 mAh and larger is impossible to get higher than 30-35C rating. This comes straight from a manufacturers mouth, the higher the C rating the lower the mAh would have to be, so for it to be a 40C it would have to be like a 3500-4000 mAh battery. Just want everyone to know what is going on and I hope ROAR does start testing the C rating somehow....
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:46 PM   #62
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Here are some additional specs:
Model: TP5000-2SPR

Description: 5000mAh 2S 7.4V Pro Race 40C LiPo w/Case

Dimensions: 24mm H x 46.4mm W x 138mm L

Case Type: Hard/Standard

Maximum continuous discharge rate/current: 40C/200 amps

ROAR approved: Yes

MAP/Street price: $124.99

Here also is a graph showing the discharge curves of the 5000mah Pro Race 40C cell (generated using our in-house test equipment…we test and match our cells and assemble all of our packs here in Las Vegas, NV USA). As you can see, the cell delivers more than 90% of the rated capacity when discharged at the 40C rate.


Additional data will be posted next week. Have a good weekend!

[/QUOTE]

Thunder Power: is this a 2S1P pack or 2S2P pack.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:56 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Diggity View Post
Sorry people but any 7.4v lipo 5000 mAh and larger is impossible to get higher than 30-35C rating. This comes straight from a manufacturers mouth, the higher the C rating the lower the mAh would have to be, so for it to be a 40C it would have to be like a 3500-4000 mAh battery. Just want everyone to know what is going on and I hope ROAR does start testing the C rating somehow....
Could that be because the manufacturer cant offer the tolerances needed so its telling you that so they have an excuse?

Im sure in the early 90s, they would had said the same thing about SubC's over 3500mah, when 2000 was top of the line.

(Not a diss on you Diggity, just pointing out, that we cant rely on what one manufacturer says alone, as it will always be colored).
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:42 PM   #64
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I can guarantee you the engineer wallstreet is talking about knows his stuff.

I also noticed with a simple "find more posts by this user" search, you make an appearance on every thread and question the lipo, or ask if it's as good as an SMC. But you talk up the SMC on other threads.

That is the total of your ten posts here.
Thanks for all the efforts that you had put on me instead of looking for the best alternative way for RC players on buying what they are really paying for.

I have been actually involved in the development of lithium polymer battery since 1997 and I am glad to see that the RC market is starting to use Lipo packs more and more. So it is my best interest to test each Lipo packs from every Lipo manufacturer. I have no doubt that Enerland makes good cells with good and stable material. And I also tested the pack from SMC and they do use very decent cells that compare to the Enerland cells.

The engineer wallstreet is talking about means nothing to us, all we need is the label from each Lipo pack that reflects to its ture performance. If you want to discuss with me in more technical side about Lipo, please feel free to do so. It is pain in the ass for these ture Lipo manufacturers like Enerland that have been worked so hard on making better Lipo and find others just work so hard on their "label".
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:51 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by O'Brain View Post
Thanks for all the efforts that you had put on me instead of looking for the best alternative way for RC players on buying what they are really paying for.

I have been actually involved in the development of lithium polymer battery since 1997 and I am glad to see that the RC market is starting to use Lipo packs more and more. So it is my best interest to test each Lipo packs from every Lipo manufacturer. I have no doubt that Enerland makes good cells with good and stable material. And I also tested the pack from SMC and they do use very decent cells that compare to the Enerland cells.

The engineer wallstreet is talking about means nothing to us, all we need is the label from each Lipo pack that reflects to its ture performance. If you want to discuss with me in more technical side about Lipo, please feel free to do so. It is pain in the ass for these ture Lipo manufacturers like Enerland that have been worked so hard on making better Lipo and find others just work so hard on their "label".

U'mmm, You assuming that Enerland is the only company working on better LIPO???? lol

These must be one hell of a pack for three different Lipo distributors, retailers, and reps. to come on and attack a battery who IMO has had a great rep. from the Airplane and Heli side of the hobby... Oh and the heli guys have a few years head start on Lipos....lol

Can't wait to buy a pack to try out...
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:03 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by O'Brain View Post
Thanks for all the efforts that you had put on me instead of looking for the best alternative way for RC players on buying what they are really paying for.

I have been actually involved in the development of lithium polymer battery since 1997 and I am glad to see that the RC market is starting to use Lipo packs more and more. So it is my best interest to test each Lipo packs from every Lipo manufacturer. I have no doubt that Enerland makes good cells with good and stable material. And I also tested the pack from SMC and they do use very decent cells that compare to the Enerland cells.

The engineer wallstreet is talking about means nothing to us, all we need is the label from each Lipo pack that reflects to its ture performance. If you want to discuss with me in more technical side about Lipo, please feel free to do so. It is pain in the ass for these ture Lipo manufacturers like Enerland that have been worked so hard on making better Lipo and find others just work so hard on their "label".
It took 10 sec to search your posts. The fact that you seem to be questioning all these batteries makes me question your motives.

I understand that ultimately on track performance is the point of purchasing a new battery. We all want to buy products which are truthfully labeled.

Basically, I'm telling you that you have a lousy way of coming at people. Getting on your high horse doesn't mean anything around here, because it's the internet. Provide some content, and people will respect you.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:14 AM   #67
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U'mmm, You assuming that Enerland is the only company working on better LIPO???? lol

These must be one hell of a pack for three different Lipo distributors, retailers, and reps. to come on and attack a battery who IMO has had a great rep. from the Airplane and Heli side of the hobby... Oh and the heli guys have a few years head start on Lipos....lol

Can't wait to buy a pack to try out...
Enerland is one of the good company making on better Lipo by using good material and i actually did test their cells. Not only test the performance of the pack but also did a detail analysis on the material that they use. I did the same thing to SMC packs also.

I also can't wait to buy a TP 40C pack to do my testing.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:19 AM   #68
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I didn't want to post anymore on this thread but due to the things some of you say I have to speak my mind. Can you tell me where the TP pack was attacked by me or Jack ?

I applaud TP for actually posting a graph as this should be the standard. I'm sure the TP pack will have very good performance as technology is always improving. For those who think we don't have access to the latest technology just stay tuned you will see some info from us soon.
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:27 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
I didn't want to post anymore on this thread but due to the things some of you say I have to speak my mind. Can you tell me where the TP pack was attacked by me or Jack ?

I applaud TP for actually posting a graph as this should be the standard. I'm sure the TP pack will have very good performance as technology is always improving. For those who think we don't have access to the latest technology just stay tuned you will see some info from us soon.

43 C here we come ......
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:47 AM   #70
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[QUOTE=robk;5105257]It took 10 sec to search your posts. The fact that you seem to be questioning all these batteries makes me question your motives.

I understand that ultimately on track performance is the point of purchasing a new battery. We all want to buy products which are truthfully labeled.

Basically, I'm telling you that you have a lousy way of coming at people. Getting on your high horse doesn't mean anything around here, because it's the internet. Provide some content, and people will respect you.[/QUOT

It is really a common sense for a Lipo maker to feel interest about all the packs out there in the market from different manufacturers. It is internet, so I am entitle to questioning products that I feel interested.

Don't you think that was also a lousy way to say something irresponsible by using the example of a EV car powering system when we are talking about high C rate Lithium polymer battery here?
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Old 11-29-2008, 12:48 AM   #71
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I just hope that longevity won't suffer with the recent obsession over #'s.....

I got back into electric because the # of cycles you can get out of a lipo is insane..... I've had some lipo packs for a year now with out any detectable drop off on the track.... I like the Idea of buying a new battery as an upgrade and not because my current pack just turned into junk after a few cycles...
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:12 AM   #72
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43 C here we come ......
My money's on 45C

Nice looking discharge graph there. My setup probably won't pull more than 25C but it's nice to see that the extra grunt is there.
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Old 11-29-2008, 07:54 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Francis M. View Post
I just hope that longevity won't suffer with the recent obsession over #'s.....

I got back into electric because the # of cycles you can get out of a lipo is insane..... I've had some lipo packs for a year now with out any detectable drop off on the track.... I like the Idea of buying a new battery as an upgrade and not because my current pack just turned into junk after a few cycles...
From my exspeariance (sp?) you might want to stay away from TP then. Pro-lights, V2's and the new extreme start to fall off around the 10 cycle mark. Yes that is staying below 80% !!

Airplane/heli guy here. I have been playing with lipo's since the 10c packs in both small and large, planes and helis. By far the helis are the hardest on packs. Packs Ive tried? Kokam,TP,Apogee,Mega,FP..and a few more I cant think of right now. Havnt had the chance to try the new anti puff kong power and the like but have heard good things about them. What brand would I recomend ???

FLIGHT POWER. They run longer, spin motors faster and last way longer then anything I have used.

Back to TP. The pro-lights were the most stable out of all of them. Unless it was the 1320's and those would lose it after a season. The 2100's were a hit or miss type of thing. One pack would go for 2 years and the other? When ever it wanted to go, it would. Could be 2 weeks, could be 2 months. The extreme's are the worst. I got 2 packs for my rex 450 and they rocked for about 10 cycles on 1 and maybe 15 on the other. After that they lost rpm and runtime. One even puffed up on cycle #18 !!! I will spare you the story of the 6s 5000 pack for my rex 600.

Im not here to attack anybody or bad mouth a co. Just letting you know what I know about TP. Cars are pretty easy on packs so all of this might be diffrent. But after having my Orion (kokam) packs for half a season of 13.5, it looks to be the same.

DK
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:19 AM   #74
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From my exspeariance (sp?) you might want to stay away from TP then. Pro-lights, V2's and the new extreme start to fall off around the 10 cycle mark. Yes that is staying below 80% !!

Airplane/heli guy here. I have been playing with lipo's since the 10c packs in both small and large, planes and helis. By far the helis are the hardest on packs. Packs Ive tried? Kokam,TP,Apogee,Mega,FP..and a few more I cant think of right now. Havnt had the chance to try the new anti puff kong power and the like but have heard good things about them. What brand would I recomend ???

FLIGHT POWER. They run longer, spin motors faster and last way longer then anything I have used.

Back to TP. The pro-lights were the most stable out of all of them. Unless it was the 1320's and those would lose it after a season. The 2100's were a hit or miss type of thing. One pack would go for 2 years and the other? When ever it wanted to go, it would. Could be 2 weeks, could be 2 months. The extreme's are the worst. I got 2 packs for my rex 450 and they rocked for about 10 cycles on 1 and maybe 15 on the other. After that they lost rpm and runtime. One even puffed up on cycle #18 !!! I will spare you the story of the 6s 5000 pack for my rex 600.

Im not here to attack anybody or bad mouth a co. Just letting you know what I know about TP. Cars are pretty easy on packs so all of this might be diffrent. But after having my Orion (kokam) packs for half a season of 13.5, it looks to be the same.

DK
You are pointing out something that the rating standard will have to address someday. TP has posted a graph showing the pack discharging successfully @ 40c so they have a 40c rating. Your experience with airplane/heli use shows that if a pack is asked to produce all of the power it's rated for, many don't last. That says to me that the rating standard should have a minimum cycle count too. What if a "C" rating could only be legitimate if the battery could achieve the standard after 30 cycles at it's rating?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I changed to lipo so I could get away from 2-4 month pack life. It stands to reason that most of the current branded lipos should last a long time in cars, as I understand it battery cycle life is improved when the pack is strained less.

The battery company that will get my business (admittedly, light business ) is the one that demonstrates good performance and long cycle life.

Last edited by Davidka; 11-29-2008 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 11-29-2008, 09:25 AM   #75
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It is really a common sense for a Lipo maker to feel interest about all the packs out there in the market from different manufacturers. It is internet, so I am entitle to questioning products that I feel interested.

Don't you think that was also a lousy way to say something irresponsible by using the example of a EV car powering system when we are talking about high C rate Lithium polymer battery here?
I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Look at the quote. There is no comparison to 1:1 car systems, just a a mention that there are far superior batteries of whatever composition available. I don't see any "irresponsible" comments. You just seem to be looking to hang these guys before they even have their battery available to the public.

" I have a buddy who races with me alot , also happens to develope lipo battery systems for hybrid and all electric automobiles ... He laughed at the false lipo claim thread, and is probably laughing at the guys questioning the 40c as well... There are far far superior batterys out there that just havent made it to the rc industry yet cause of cost and other reasons."

BTW, what does "It is really a common sense for a Lipo maker to feel interest about all the packs out there in the market from different manufacturers. " mean? Are you a manufacturer of lipos?

Ultimately, we are going to see what all these batteries do on the track. Not to mention, 90% of the people out there will never push any of these batteries to their limits because they are running 17.5 or 13.5.
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