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Old 10-06-2003, 04:26 PM   #16
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are you people kidding me? i agree seriousre. there is a BIG problem with the manufacturing process if they they cant get mass produced motors to perform the same. gimme a break, why is it that only in the R/C industry that motor manufacturers cant get consistant results? take any other electric motor application,and they can get them to perform the same. cordless drills,fans,blow dryers,ect,ect... why can they do it and people like Trinity cant? and dont go saying that r/c motors are "special" because their not. electric motors are electric motors. there is no magic,hocus pocus or divine creation about it. yes, hand wound mods are different, monsters, and mvps,and chameleons,ect..motors that roll off the asembally line should have some consistancy to them. now i personally could care less about rpm, it doesnt mean much to me,but seriourse does have a point
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Old 10-06-2003, 04:31 PM   #17
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sean - Believe what you want. We have explained why each motor is different, if you don't believe us then then that's your choice.
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Old 10-06-2003, 04:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
are you people kidding me? i agree seriousre. there is a BIG problem with the manufacturing process if they they cant get mass produced motors to perform the same. gimme a break, why is it that only in the R/C industry that motor manufacturers cant get consistant results? take any other electric motor application,and they can get them to perform the same. cordless drills,fans,blow dryers,ect,ect... why can they do it and people like Trinity cant?
It's not that they couldn't get them to be close but it would cost them more to produce the motors thus cutting the amount of cash they pull in.
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Old 10-06-2003, 05:37 PM   #19
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Back to one of my original responses and thats if I go and buy two ORION RUSH 15x2 I bet they would be within 1,000 rpm of each other.

If not then that has nothing to do with cost cutting, thats just plain out slop.

back to the standard voltage, you say there is not one ?????

UMMM 7.2 volts maybe

yes i Know that not one single 7.2 pack pushes less then 7.4 but its a standard thats already in play.

Take this for example, why are all car audio amps rated at peak watts when 12 volts is applied?????

cause your cars 12 volts? yeah right think again, your car is 13-14 volts.

Your battery just says 12 volts on it, the amp actually pushes more watts at 14.4 volts then 12 volts but there still rated at 12 volt, why?
because its some sort of standard that all amp manufacturers can conform to.
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Old 10-06-2003, 05:43 PM   #20
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Each motors components will be slightly different, give it ones, copper is a fraction denser or one has slightly better magnets etc.
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Old 10-06-2003, 05:48 PM   #21
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Ok heres another one for ya, I will admit I am totally wrong about everything if you can tell me what pinion I should run on this setup. or even close.

2.5:1 gear ratio
72 spur
? pinion
2.5" tire diameter
15 turn double motor

What pinion should I run ?????
This would be a car chassis obviously since there are 2.5" tires

ok heres one more this one is a little tougher

3.6:1 gear ratio
125 spur
? pinion
5.5" tire diameter
15 turn double

What pinion should I run ???????
This would be a truck, hence the 5.5" tires

and If I cant tell you what pinion to run on any given setup "you name it" and I get to pick the motor "such as a D5 where the rpm is stated" then I will admit I'm wrong
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:18 PM   #22
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"my rollout is there but I really dont know without knowing the rpm and being able to see my max speed."

seriousre - Ok I'm confused here, you want to gear a motor correctely by the mph that you want it to go, and you need the rpm of the motor to find out the mph's. How on earth do you know what mph the car is going to be going all the way around the track(so you gear it correctely). It just seems alot more logical to me to spend 10 mins of practice to gear it conventionally. I never said it couldn't be done, I said "You may tune a motor using the rpm's but it's useless on the track since you tune so that your motor is fast in the corners not just in the straight" you'd need to know how fast your car is going to be going through the corners to gear it properly, this is changing constantely anyway. It just seems alot easier in my opinion to do it the conventional way.

Last edited by fatdoggy; 10-06-2003 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:22 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by sean
are you people kidding me? i agree seriousre. there is a BIG problem with the manufacturing process if they they cant get mass produced motors to perform the same. gimme a break, why is it that only in the R/C industry that motor manufacturers cant get consistant results? take any other electric motor application,and they can get them to perform the same. cordless drills,fans,blow dryers,ect,ect... why can they do it and people like Trinity cant? and dont go saying that r/c motors are "special" because their not. electric motors are electric motors. there is no magic,hocus pocus or divine creation about it. yes, hand wound mods are different, monsters, and mvps,and chameleons,ect..motors that roll off the asembally line should have some consistancy to them. now i personally could care less about rpm, it doesnt mean much to me,but seriourse does have a point
What you're not looking at is these INDUSTRIAL MOTORS are not the finicky high performance motors we're dealing with. Those motors aren't always spinning at 20-30,000 rpm. More like 2,000. BIG difference. Besides, most of those type of motors are brushless. No maintenance, no wear, etc. to change the results. Also, You take an rc motor dyno it at 20,000 rpm, run it twice, cut it, run it twice again, cut it, change brushes, and dyno it again. You'll get a noticable change in the results due to a smaller comm that will change the roating mass etc etc etc. Not only is each motor different but each motor changes as it's used. Even from run to run. Besides, most of us that are that concearned with gearing are racers and we gear it to the track. I could care less about the actual MPH my car is traveling, as long as I'm keeping up or passing the other guy. That's what practice time is for, to set up the car and the motor.
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Old 10-06-2003, 06:39 PM   #24
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Precisely. Sean & seriousre, you can believe what you want, but we're just giving you the facts. And there is something else that fatdoggy forgot to mention(though I did in a previous post), that IS THE biggest factor in any armature, & that's HOW IT'S WOUND. To get a group of motors of the same wind to top out within 1000rpm of each other & put out the same torque & power number(as close as is possible) & reach that top end in the same amount of time, takes a level of talent that VERY FEW people on this planet possess. Honestly, most of my friends consider me to be one of those guys who goes into similar levels of detail when working on a motor, & I can't even come CLOSE to that level of accuracy(which is why I hold guys like Jim Dieter, Mike Reedy, & the other elite builders with the highest respect). Frankly, if I could do them that well, I'd be selling motors myself. And as I said before, winding an armature is still as much an ART as it is a science, & I can't even IMAGINE just how long it takes those guys to set up a group of motors for their factory drivers....
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Old 10-06-2003, 07:21 PM   #25
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Nevermind the fact that there are SEVERAL different dyno's available. Robotroniks, Quillen, Competition Electronics, Fantom... they all use different software and algorhythms to compute their data. Unless all manufacturers used the same dyno and the same software (including the same version of the software,) the numbers won't be comparable.

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Old 10-06-2003, 07:58 PM   #26
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listen guys i am with you as far as HAND wound mods being different,no i dont care about RPM or MPH myself. but as far as machine wound mass produced motors such as Speed Gem and what not(wich i would never run anyway)i have a hard time believing that there cant be some cosistancy. these are modern assembly lines were talking about,not some third world sweat shop factories. these are machines that do the EXACT same thing over and over and over ect... maybe it kills me to think in the middle of the technological explosion going on around the world we cant produce the same motor twice? that doesnt strike you as odd? as far as different dynos spitting out different numbers-thats a whole issue in and of its self. i dont care what kind of software you use in each one. are you telling me that if i add 2+2 on a windows based computer and the same in a mac and i get a different anwer from each thats ok?wake up dude-somethin' aint right
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:04 PM   #27
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Man who cares, the lower the turn, the hotter the motor, the lower the wind, the quicker the spool-up, quit crying over wrapped wire and buy one, did you ever realize that these motors have differant timing? Motors are motors and that's it. If you're serious about racing you surely won't be buying one motor for a seasons worth of racing, check with the fast guys at your track and see what they're racing, nothings the same
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:15 PM   #28
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You don't seem to realise why machine wound motors are cheaper and slower. Sure it's a machine winding it and so theoreticly it should do the same thing every time but in reality it can't. It can't see what it's doing so it will lay each wind down with no attempt at lining it up with previous winds. The wire itself is not perfectly constant, so when it lays down it may fall into a slot between other winds it may not, this all adds up to a not so neatly wound motor. A human can manipulate the wires as the guy down and make things neater, so the winds are tighter and use less wire, a machine can have a wide range of total wire length used in it's armatures.
You can't say machine made motors in other things are more accurate, sure they rate them for their uses but every motor there is just as inaccurate, it just doesn't matter nearly as much in most situations.

You also can't gear a car for a certain mph using hte rpm of a motor, not only will the volts differ but there will be a lot of friction playing it's part. There is no escaping the fact that you have to go out and try different pinions, until you get a speed you're happy with and the motor is not cooking itself.
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:16 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grizzbob
Precisely. Sean & seriousre, you can believe what you want, but we're just giving you the facts. And there is something else that fatdoggy forgot to mention(though I did in a previous post), that IS THE biggest factor in any armature, & that's HOW IT'S WOUND. To get a group of motors of the same wind to top out within 1000rpm of each other & put out the same torque & power number(as close as is possible) & reach that top end in the same amount of time, takes a level of talent that VERY FEW people on this planet possess. Honestly, most of my friends consider me to be one of those guys who goes into similar levels of detail when working on a motor, & I can't even come CLOSE to that level of accuracy(which is why I hold guys like Jim Dieter, Mike Reedy, & the other elite builders with the highest respect). Frankly, if I could do them that well, I'd be selling motors myself. And as I said before, winding an armature is still as much an ART as it is a science, & I can't even IMAGINE just how long it takes those guys to set up a group of motors for their factory drivers....
Well I dont know, but I do know that tons of crazy people put there faith in the machine windings of traxxas every day.

How you ask, an e-maxx runs dual motors, if there not within "x" rpm of each other "well im sure you know, one drags ass and the other just picks up slack"
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Old 10-06-2003, 08:19 PM   #30
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no ones whining about motors-just discussing a point yes- i am aware that smoe motors have adjustable timing. my question is of manufacturing standards. Losirob i realize my last post may have sounded a little harsh-no dis intended. the motor thing is trivial- but to say that if i plug my motor into one dyno and get a set of torque and rpm numbers and then plug the exact same motor into a different dyno and get different numbers,well that IS a problem.
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