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Old 11-14-2008, 03:35 PM   #1
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Default brushed vs brushless

hey all: Why do some drivers still prefer to use brushed vs brushless motors?
1 that's what there used to
2 in some classes brushed motors may be a better choice than brushless
3 they can't justify the higher cost of brushless
4 they like tuning an electric motor and with brushless there's very little
5 brushless motors are still reatively new so companies that make brushless may not have all the bugs worked out yet
6 all of the above
Thanks for the insight
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Old 11-14-2008, 03:53 PM   #2
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In some cases you can make a brushed/lipo combo lighter than a brushless/lipo combo.

If your running one car in 2 classess, the gear change makes it very hard to go from one motor type to the other.

Some of the newer brushed motors are very durable and don't require as much of a maintainance routine as the older ones. Motors such as the CP Money motors and the new Reedy 19t don't mind the higher operating temps and the brushes seem to last longer.

Gotta burn up the old equipment first as there is very little market for it.
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Old 11-14-2008, 05:02 PM   #3
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In stock classes, there's a chance you can get a lighter car with brushed esc/motor. Also, with the right maintenance, you can get a brushed stock motor running really fast.

In our local 12th scale class (on a small track) - looks like everyone but one guy so far is running brushed 27T. Keeps cost of setting up a 12th scale low plus there are some ESCs that are really light weight.

Sparks off the comm are cool too!
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:26 PM   #4
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I think that the over all factor is cost. Brushless is pretty expensive. And during a race or qual session there is very little difference.

Lipo took a little while to take off, but when the prices came down to what a good pack of Nimh cost then you saw people start to go for them, Now that lipo offers run times that Nimh could only dream about that was just all that much better. Lipo was/is popular in the air because of weight, it took a while for the tech to catch on in cars.

When you see a brushless motor go for $30 and a speedo for $60 you will see the mass shift.

This is just me, I want to try lipo but until I can get a race setup for under $150 I will keep my brushed motors.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:56 PM   #5
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Brushless looks more expensive at first, but if you look at what you need to run brushed the comparison is much closer. To run brushed and have the same straight line speed you'll need a lathe and many sets of brushes. A good lathe and a diamond tip cutting tool is gunna set you back 150-200 and add that up with the many sets of brushes and your looking at a bill of around 300-350. Thats about the cost of a brushless system.
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Old 11-16-2008, 03:56 AM   #6
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I don't understand why virtually everyone dosen't run brushed. The only class where it is close is stock but for practice you can't beat brushless. And don't say the cost is high. You can buy combos like team wave RB-30 and a 17.5,13.5,10.5 for around $100US and it will far outlast the brushed motor you use for comps even if it is run every week.
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Old 11-16-2008, 04:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
I
This is just me, I want to try lipo but until I can get a race setup for under $150 I will keep my brushed motors.
You do realize that you CAN try lipo and still run brushed, right? LiPo's do not require a brushless motor...
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:32 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Drewdc90 View Post
Brushless looks more expensive at first, but if you look at what you need to run brushed the comparison is much closer. To run brushed and have the same straight line speed you'll need a lathe and many sets of brushes. A good lathe and a diamond tip cutting tool is gunna set you back 150-200 and add that up with the many sets of brushes and your looking at a bill of around 300-350. Thats about the cost of a brushless system.

One thing about this hobby is people think they need what (insert famous guy) ran at the worlds to run at a club level....they don't. There will always be guys that spend the big bucks to have the latest stuff and they usually do pretty well...the reason they do well is because they are there every practice, every race, are cleaning and spend time cleaning and going over their car every event....that is why they do well not because they have the latest stuff. Not any different if you want to play the guitar well or race a toy car, it is all the same.

You don't need a lathe and if your comm gets to the point after a few seasons on it where it needs to be trued up just toss it and buy another $30 motor...if you have an out of round comm you are having other problems in setting up your brushed motor. A nice polish will do the job 99% of the time, and you can do that with $5 worth of stuff. Brushes are cheap at $4 per set and will last quite a while.

I am not saying that brushless tech is not better, it is....however at this point in time the costs out weigh the advantages....give them some time it is the same with lipo, brushless and lipo was in planes for years and years before someone ever put them in a car...lipo has finally made it into surface stuff, brushless is on its way but it is not to the point where every racer will have one yet, they are just too expensive.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonfire View Post
I don't understand why virtually everyone dosen't run brushed. The only class where it is close is stock but for practice you can't beat brushless. And don't say the cost is high. You can buy combos like team wave RB-30 and a 17.5,13.5,10.5 for around $100US and it will far outlast the brushed motor you use for comps even if it is run every week.

This has been hashed out a nu,mber of times, but I'll add my $.02 worth this time around...

I agree brushless isn't that much more expensive in the end, but there are a few things you have to remember...
  • I (myself and others in my situation) already have a nice lathe, motors, brushes, shims, springs, etc etc that I need to continue to run brushed at a competitive level.
  • The above mentioned equipment is practically worthless as far as actual cash value. The market is flooded with used brushed equip.
  • ... whhich means I can purchase more brushed equip really cheap and continue not having to drop $300-400 on speedo and multiple motors to replace my stock/19t/mod brushed motors.
  • if you don't mind doing a little extra work (or you have someone nice enough to assist you), right now is a great time to save money on racing expenses by staying brushed a little longer.
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Old 11-16-2008, 11:14 AM   #10
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Another brushed vs. brushless thread...

I've run brushed and brushless for both onroad and offroad. NOTHING beats the ease and maintenance of brushless. Fact is that if I want to be competitive with brushed in stock it's going to take maintenance and brushes to compete. That time can be spent on the car with brushless instead of tuning on a motor.

In the end, cost doesn't mean much in this argument for me. I just spent nearly $300 on tires for practice and Cleveland. Add to that parts, bodies, and batteries for 12th and a brushless set-up isnt' a big deal.

As far as I know one car at the track yesterday had a brushless motor in stock. One car... The entire A main was brushless.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:07 PM   #11
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We just ran the warmup meet for our nats here in oz. The fastest laps by 0.4sec belong to a brushless lipo car in stock.
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Old 11-16-2008, 06:52 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
One thing about this hobby is people think they need what (insert famous guy) ran at the worlds to run at a club level....they don't.
Amen. best choice for 99.9% of us is to get what is best supported at the local track... Who cares if (insert famous name here_ won the last world championship with soemthing if I break it in the first round and have to end my day because I can't get the part for a week...

Quote:
There will always be guys that spend the big bucks to have the latest stuff and they usually do pretty well...the reason they do well is because they are there every practice, every race, are cleaning and spend time cleaning and going over their car every event....that is why they do well not because they have the latest stuff. Not any different if you want to play the guitar well or race a toy car, it is all the same.
Amen again. Time and money spent practicing and testing will nearly always give the most return.


Quote:
You don't need a lathe and if your comm gets to the point after a few seasons on it where it needs to be trued up just toss it and buy another $30 motor...if you have an out of round comm you are having other problems in setting up your brushed motor. A nice polish will do the job 99% of the time, and you can do that with $5 worth of stuff. Brushes are cheap at $4 per set and will last quite a while.
Gotta disagree here... If you're not truing your comm at least every race day you're not gonna be competitive, even at the club level. In mod classes, more like every single run.

I'm definitely enjoying brushless racing, but for 1/12 I'll still run brushed. I just happen to think all those wires just look fugly in a 1/12 car, and the weight penalty in 1/12 isn't worth it to me.
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:27 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherokee View Post
You don't need a lathe and if your comm gets to the point after a few seasons on it where it needs to be trued up just toss it and buy another $30 motor...if you have an out of round comm you are having other problems in setting up your brushed motor. A nice polish will do the job 99% of the time, and you can do that with $5 worth of stuff. Brushes are cheap at $4 per set and will last quite a while.
Most of what you suggested would have been fine for most clubs a while ago but since then stock has become over competitive (atleast at most of the clubs around my area). Most of the quicker stock runners are spending much more money just to run stock then I am to run at the pointy end of mod. The problem with running stock these days is the people that have budget to run mod don't step up, instead they stay in stock and pour money into their cars to stay at the top of the field. They don't step up to mod because they wont be getting that 1st place trophy they normally get in stock. The last few people to run brushed motors at my track had to cut their coms every 3-5th run to keep up with the brushless motors. They now have brushless systems to take some of the work out and to save some money.
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