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Old 10-15-2003, 05:51 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by popsracer
Could you hurry it up so you can let us all know how things worked out !


I quite sure, I desire to check it out, more than you do

Unfortunately, my track time is limited, especially for this period. So for the moment, most of my "RC-life" is one this site - pretty sad, but it's better than nothing.....
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Old 10-15-2003, 08:17 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cole Trickle
One more question: How big/small differences do you guys find appropriate in front/rear springs? With and without one-way?
A one way will greatly increase the off power steering. What you need to do is reduce the weight transfer to the front even more than normal. Typically you use a one step softer spring on the rear than front. For a one-way, I start with a two step change front to back. Maybe even go 5 or 10 higher in front oil viscosity.

After that, your talking camber link changes. See my prior post.

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Old 10-16-2003, 01:58 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by sands
A one way will greatly increase the off power steering. What you need to do is reduce the weight transfer to the front even more than normal. Typically you use a one step softer spring on the rear than front. For a one-way, I start with a two step change front to back. Maybe even go 5 or 10 higher in front oil viscosity.

After that, your talking camber link changes. See my prior post.

Sands
Sounds very reasonably, thanks.

Had some on-track experience last night, I'll be back later.
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Old 10-16-2003, 12:51 PM   #49
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Default Track results

The short version is, it was a success, but also too easy.

I simply set the front-toe to 2 degrees, -1,5 deg. camber all around. Piston #5/50 wt oil all around. Green springs (480) front, red (432) rear. Sway bars removed. Droop set at maximum (but equal in pairs). One-way diff replaced with a graphite ball diff. All other settings was stock. Same tires front/rear, that is Schumacher Dragon with CS firm inserts.

And it just worked.

Okay, I had to spend 2-3 batteries, just to get used to no one-way.

But the car was very, very stable. It's also very quick to change directions. Especially the chicanes, was a great pleasure.

If I drove the car hard in the hairpins, the rear COULD slide.

Adjusted rear camber to -2 degree. Now the rear slided only, if I was very very hard in the hairpins.

The rear of car bounces a little over the bumps, but it wasnt a real problem, just annoying to watch. So I went to 60 oil all around. Same story, but less bouncing and a little more stable.

Funny thing, the car didnt felt fast like before. But I had the chance to duel with my worst rival - usually he beat me relative easy, because I crash, when I'm under pressure. But this night, he couldn't get me, even though I was on my practise pack (which is quite slow), and he had good batteries. Finally, I missed a corner (no crash, just too wide) and he passed me. But what a great feeling !

Then it was time for the one-way diff. It worked quite good. Way better than before. Only problem is, that sometimes in the hairpins, the front hook up. If it's bad, the rear slide, but often the result is that the flowing driving is spoiled and the car slows down too much.

I also noticed that the car roll quite a bit. Maybe stiffer springs would be nice, but the bumps.... Maybe sway bars? But first, I have to decide about one-way or not. And also decide about tires.

At this point, I was out of time.

Next time, I have to try some other tires. The Dragons are the ones with best grip at our track, especially in the cold winther (it's an indoor track, but with low temperatures). But the Dragons have real bad economy, so I'll try some others in combination with tire warmers.

And I still consider ball diff versus one-way. With the ball diff, I'll have to change the setup sligthly, to get a little more steering (probably less toe, both front and rear, and less castor). But I'm quite sure I'll still mis the sweet on-power steering of the one-way diff.

If I go one-way diff, I'll probably experiment with sway-bars in the front as the option of my first choise.
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:11 PM   #50
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If your track is bumpy, I'd avoid using sways. It will do odd things to upset your car.

Take a look at your car's performance in the three parts of the corner: Entry, middle, exit. You can start to tune your car for best performance in all three places by making subtle changes to different parts. I'd recomend that you pick up a book called "Chassis setup guide" from XXX Main. mpowered-racing.com should have it. You can also find it on e-bay now and then
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Old 10-16-2003, 02:26 PM   #51
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2 degrees of front toe seems a lot... (if that's what you actually meant) - I tend to set them straight ahead.

I also tend to avoid using camber as a tuning tool, just setting it for even wear - that way you can be fairly sure you're making the most of the tyres - 2 degrees isn't extreme though (although I wouldn't go beyond that)

Good to hear the "guessed" setup worked for you though - driveability and consisitency is SO important through a race - so keep up with the experiments... but don't get too extreme like you were before... !
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Old 10-16-2003, 06:58 PM   #52
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Default Chassis set-up

Guys;

I NEVER run more than 1 degree Toe-OUT on any of my Cars. Most of the time I set them to ZERO Toe.

Toe-out will give you MORE turn in steering and LESS exit steering. Toe-in, the opposite. Zero toe is usually the best for most Cars. Work on everything else first, then add T.O. if you need more turn in.

For Camber, the most I've run was 1.5 in the Rear of my Nitro Car with Foams. When I tried more Camber using rubber Tires, the Car tended to handle "Funny". All of this depends of course, on the Car and amount of availible grip.
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Old 10-16-2003, 09:44 PM   #53
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Old 10-18-2003, 02:23 PM   #54
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Reading: Well, I've already read a lot (my favorites: Xray setup guide and RC Car Handling ) The suggested book might be better, but I believe it's about practising setup, especially simplicity !

Anti roll bars: Yes, I do know about bumps (reading !), but the bumps in our track is 90 degree to driving direction, so several guys have good experience with on our track.

Camber: I normally set camber for even tire wear. But the Dragons I've used is high-profile, so they require a little extra.

Toe: I did meant 2 degree front and rear toe-in. Yes, it's a lot. But:

I'll have to try out some other tires with better economy. That incolve tire warmers during the winter.

I wont work too much on the setup, before the tires have been choosen (only 2 to choose between, should be simple).

I havent made up my mind yet, but I think I'll drop the one-way for a couple of races. I have to get used to the ball diff in the front again. And see some race results
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Old 10-22-2003, 04:15 PM   #55
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Tire choosen, Schumacher White + tire warmer. It's a little more hazle, but way better tire economy.

Front toe-in = 0 degree, -1,5 degree camber rear.

Ball diff in front.

Pretty stock by now.

I plan on running it like this for a period, to give it a real good try. The car drives great, for the moment I dont have any problems in and out going of the corners.

It's a long time I last tried less caster and less rear toe-in. Gonna try it again, just to see what happens. But that'll be after the race.

On sunday, it'll be tested in a race.
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Old 10-22-2003, 04:26 PM   #56
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This is what I use as a setup reference. I pulled this together from a lot of the reading you can find on the internet. This is all public domain stuff so no copyright secrets or anything.

I did find a lot of conflicting information out there, so some of it I used my own experience to sort out and some of it I used what most of the reading said.

Some of the setting will do different things to different cars. Some cars will be more or less sensitive to the same setting change as well.

Anyway, this works well for me.
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File Type: pdf handling quick sheet r1.pdf (11.1 KB, 166 views)
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Old 10-22-2003, 04:27 PM   #57
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The other one that I use
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Old 10-22-2003, 04:28 PM   #58
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Oh yeah, the target of the information on the two prior posts is for full suspension, touring cars. SOME of it will work for pan cars, but the rear ends are quite different on what you need to do to get the same behavior changes out of a touring car. The principles are the same though.
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Old 10-23-2003, 12:14 PM   #59
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Thank you Sands, nice reference you've made here. Do you mind, if I translate it into danish and publish it on my clubs site? You can see the site here if you like, but it's in danish of course

I find it a little hard to describe my cars handling as it is now. I take it as a sign of it's pretty good, since nothing seems like a problem. It dont slide, it's very stable and in the same time, it's very responsive. In addition, I find it's very predictive, it dosent surprises me at any point.

But I do mis the turn in of the one-way diff. Also, I mis the on-power steering. However, it's not big deal, I can drive me out of it.

If it should be even better, it should be able to carry more corner speed. I dont know if it's just a feel or if it's for real. When racing against my hardest competitions, I beat 2 of them, and I'm closer to the 2 others, than ever before.

Unfortunately, I missed the sign in for sundays race so I'll have to wait with a regular race test.....
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Old 01-11-2004, 01:00 PM   #60
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Default Jipiii

For personal reasons, toda was the first race I managed to participate in, after these setup changes.

Now it's proven, that it really rocks. 3. in the A-main and very good flowing driving. And a couple of times, I was very very close to pass the winner. Never happend before....

My setup havent changed since the last post in here. And I believe the rest is mainly a matter of more practising.

So I wanted to share this personal victory with you helpfull guys. And thanks again for all the help.
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