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Old 02-11-2009, 10:52 AM   #271
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Thats some good Info^^^^ Rob....As far as roll center goes I myself find High roll center in the front to be helpfull in removing a little steering speacially when runnin a oneway, As far as a spool goes just talkin about that makes my stomach hurt.....High roll center will decrease your roll and low roll center will increase the roll as I know it ( plus I checked it in the xray setup book).....The funny thing I always find is in looking at other setups or setup sheets for example look at xray's site and checkout lemieux's setup compared to Wiess's setup or even Andrew Ellis setup and you will see there are complete difference's and there all from the same race so the track condition is the same???....I would like to thank Rob and all the guys posting on here w/opinons and facts as this will only help increase the popularity of this class by showing that were here to help.......Remember Pistons and oil weights also help control steering and playing around with differences in all these things will make you better as long as you remember or document your change and what it did for the car.......There is no MAGIC SETUP.........If so Rob,Kevin,Brian or Brad must have it as they always look good as they fly by me.....But they are also better drivers.....So maybe your like me my setup is fine but my drivin not so fine....

Keep posting.........Hope you dont pass me as much at the regionals....Rob

So... another point then -- if you run heavier oil in the front shocks (like going from 30 wt to 40 wt), then I assume that should give more off-power steering ?

I.e. with a one-way in front, I seem to have to wait for the car to turn in more than I want to (or lift sooner than I want to ). If I ran heavier oil in the front shocks (all else being equal), the car should turn in quicker off power ?

thanks !
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Old 02-11-2009, 12:32 PM   #272
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So... another point then -- if you run heavier oil in the front shocks (like going from 30 wt to 40 wt), then I assume that should give more off-power steering ?

I.e. with a one-way in front, I seem to have to wait for the car to turn in more than I want to (or lift sooner than I want to ). If I ran heavier oil in the front shocks (all else being equal), the car should turn in quicker off power ?

thanks !
Which car you running the TC3 or TA05R? Cant remember I know you posted it....Are your shocks straight up or layed down in frnt? Are you running a sway in frnt? whats your ride height and droop set at? Do you run any drag brake?........Heavier oil faster steering response it is closely related to how springs effect steering but its more of a fine tunning option....If you have a good selection of all the different springs I.E HPI,AE,Xray you can really fine tun w/ springs.....AS far as the oneway I have never wanted waited or needed any more steering w/A oneway I normally dial out the steering it sounds like you have a push or your running a spool.....Does your car seem to turn better one way more than the other? As far as in quicker off power it doesnt really matter thicker oil less piston holes quicker steering more turn in and probably oversteer mid an exit I would advise trying thicker oil then try different pistons.......There are a ton of things that can cause that particular problem....A small removal of droop can give you that problem and thats a 1/16th of a turn.....
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:09 PM   #273
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Which car you running the TC3 or TA05R? Cant remember I know you posted it....Are your shocks straight up or layed down in frnt? Are you running a sway in frnt? whats your ride height and droop set at? Do you run any drag brake?........Heavier oil faster steering response it is closely related to how springs effect steering but its more of a fine tunning option....If you have a good selection of all the different springs I.E HPI,AE,Xray you can really fine tun w/ springs.....AS far as the oneway I have never wanted waited or needed any more steering w/A oneway I normally dial out the steering it sounds like you have a push or your running a spool.....Does your car seem to turn better one way more than the other? As far as in quicker off power it doesnt really matter thicker oil less piston holes quicker steering more turn in and probably oversteer mid an exit I would advise trying thicker oil then try different pistons.......There are a ton of things that can cause that particular problem....A small removal of droop can give you that problem and thats a 1/16th of a turn.....

This is my TC3.

Front caster -- 2 deg.

Front kickup -- none.

Front shock mounting -- 3rd hole in on tower (using a rear tower on the front), outer hole on suspension arm.

Front shocks -- 35 WT AE oil with #2 AE pistons.

Front sway bar -- none.

Ride height -- 5.5 mm.

Front droop -- "4" on AE droop guage.

Drag brake on ESC -- default profile on Novak GTB (20%?)

RE: " sounds like you have a push " .. yes -- I would call it an off-power push (I have a one way, not a spool).

Thx.
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Last edited by TeamGoodwrench; 02-11-2009 at 01:15 PM. Reason: added info
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:12 PM   #274
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Max out that drag brake
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Old 02-11-2009, 01:13 PM   #275
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Although it may not have looked like it, my car WAS wanting to roll both right and left. It just so happened that with the layout the 2 fastest turns were right turns, hence the appearance of it only rolling through right turns. Trust me, I was 2-wheeling it almost every foot of the infield "T"

I think when I head back up there for the Nat's I will go up to at least 50 in the front and start with a 1-hole piston. This should help slow the front suspension action down a little bit so it doesn't "jerk" so hard and roll. Also Brian don't forget that I still have those short turnbuckles of yours, so I will get them returned Friday.

Also I had removed my front kickup for that Friday that I raced in Indy and won the A-Main. It helped with the somewhat tight layout we had, but I had completely forgot about adding it back in and trying that since I did not have any optional caster hubs at The Track

Thanks again guys for the help. I've thrown a setup together in my head that I know I will start off with for The Track. Too bad it's a 4-hour drive or I'd head up there right now and test it
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:00 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by TeamGoodwrench View Post
This is my TC3.

Front caster -- 2 deg.

Front kickup -- none.

Front shock mounting -- 3rd hole in on tower (using a rear tower on the front), outer hole on suspension arm.

Front shocks -- 35 WT AE oil with #2 AE pistons.

Front sway bar -- none.

Ride height -- 5.5 mm.

Front droop -- "4" on AE droop guage.

Drag brake on ESC -- default profile on Novak GTB (20%?)

RE: " sounds like you have a push " .. yes -- I would call it an off-power push (I have a one way, not a spool).

Thx.
....Not sure of your drivin style but if you like to get in the corner or let off late what Rob said is money in the bank increase the drag brake will let you get further in before letting up....I would stepup to 40 at least maybe 50 depending on the traction your track has normally.....If your pushing I would start with your droop here is how I measure:

step 1: set and measure your ride height race ready
step 2: Use your ride height gauge and have a buddy slowly lift your car and have him stop just as the tires leave the surface.
Step 3:Slide your ride height guage under the chassis as close to the frnt as possible and document the height.
Step 4: Repeat on the oppisite side making sure your as close to the frnt of the car as possible.
Step 5: now subtract your measurement from step 1 from the I hope equal measurments of step 3 and 4 and whats left is droop.

So in summary I would try 2mm droop in frnt and 1 to 1.5 in rear so the answer in steps 4 and 5 if your ride height is 5.5 would be 7.5 in frnt and 6.5 in rear or 7 if you went w/1 mm of droop.....

So it would look like this: step 4 & 5:frnt measurment 7.5-5.5 ride height step 1 and that equals 2... 7.5 -5.5=2mm droop

Also I would try and run 5mm ride height in frnt and 5.5 or 6 in rear to give you a little rake to the frnt which will allow the weight to transfer to the frnt to give ya the steering your lookin for....I would say these are all safe changes really not to drastic...Plus this may free the rear end to give you alittle more roll thru the corner....

Where do you race at normally and is it high traction.....

I would think IndyRcRacer will chime in on this as he runs a TC3 and is generally very fast...
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Old 02-11-2009, 03:11 PM   #277
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Originally Posted by NUCRPTRACER View Post
....Not sure of your drivin style but if you like to get in the corner or let off late what Rob said is money in the bank increase the drag brake will let you get further in before letting up....I would stepup to 40 at least maybe 50 depending on the traction your track has normally.....If your pushing I would start with your droop here is how I measure:

step 1: set and measure your ride height race ready
step 2: Use your ride height gauge and have a buddy slowly lift your car and have him stop just as the tires leave the surface.
Step 3:Slide your ride height guage under the chassis as close to the frnt as possible and document the height.
Step 4: Repeat on the oppisite side making sure your as close to the frnt of the car as possible.
Step 5: now subtract your measurement from step 1 from the I hope equal measurments of step 3 and 4 and whats left is droop.

So in summary I would try 2mm droop in frnt and 1 to 1.5 in rear so the answer in steps 4 and 5 if your ride height is 5.5 would be 7.5 in frnt and 6.5 in rear or 7 if you went w/1 mm of droop.....

So it would look like this: step 4 & 5:frnt measurment 7.5-5.5 ride height step 1 and that equals 2... 7.5 -5.5=2mm droop

Also I would try and run 5mm ride height in frnt and 5.5 or 6 in rear to give you a little rake to the frnt which will allow the weight to transfer to the frnt to give ya the steering your lookin for....I would say these are all safe changes really not to drastic...Plus this may free the rear end to give you alittle more roll thru the corner....

Where do you race at normally and is it high traction.....

I would think IndyRcRacer will chime in on this as he runs a TC3 and is generally very fast...

Thanks for the advice -- our track is NOT high traction. It's a pretty new rug (lots 'o' fuzz on the car after a run).

I don't need a huge change -- the car is probably only about 0.2 sec off TQ on a 12 sec lap (the driver is off by more though .. LOL).

I just need that little more to drive deeper into the corner/let off later. Our tracks tend to be tight and technical -- not fast flowing, so getting into the corner fast is important.

Thx again -- lots 'o' learnin' goin' on here....
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:07 AM   #278
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Has anyone tried to use the 4 cell GTB in VTA. I have one that I use in pan car and 12th, But brushed in VTA car. Wanted to try it but not wanting to overheat the speedo. I would think that if they run 4.5's in 4 cell a 21.5 would be ok with more weight. Is a good starting point for TC3 is green/Front, silver/Rear, and 35-30 weight oils. Just swaped out springs from my Foam set up and it like driving a drift car. But it was also first run on the tires.
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:21 AM   #279
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Has anyone tried to use the 4 cell GTB in VTA. I have one that I use in pan car and 12th, But brushed in VTA car. Wanted to try it but not wanting to overheat the speedo. I would think that if they run 4.5's in 4 cell a 21.5 would be ok with more weight. Is a good starting point for TC3 is green/Front, silver/Rear, and 35-30 weight oils. Just swaped out springs from my Foam set up and it like driving a drift car. But it was also first run on the tires.
Reverse the springs and break in the tires. A GTB 4 Cell is good enough for a VTA 21.5 Lipo for sure.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:27 AM   #280
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Default rolling in VTA

I ran my RDX last night at our local track and to my surprise both cars were rolling here too. We usually change our track every 3-4 weeks, but this layout has been there now for 6 weeks so the traction is up and there a definate black groove in the track, which was good because I needed to adress this issue.

on my car I have both roll centers all the way down. I started with the Harbor set up of 14.5 lb front springs and 25 wt oil front shocks pretty laid down with a med camber link on top, with 2 deg caster blocks, i changed to 50wt oil and 22 lb springs and moved the front shocks out to one hole away from the end.I also changed the camber link to the shortest bottom hole. This actually created a slight push, but with a touch of brake was still very drive able. I did this right before the main. during the heats I was making small changes with no help, so i took a big swing at it for the main.
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Old 02-15-2009, 07:48 AM   #281
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My setup problem in R/C is that I'm always afraid to change things on a race day when I think I have a driveable car. I really have never learned how the minor setup changes I make affect the "feel" of the car.

On Friday I played around with angle of the front shocks on my TC3. I wanted a little more turn-in but didn't want to go to softer front springs. I layed the front shocks all the way down and felt that the front end had more roll, but it also had more grip. The affect was as the grip came up in the main plus my setup change that my TC3 had better steering overall which helped me drive better on our tight layout. I was the only car to average under 10 second laps for the 8 minute main!

My question is what affect on chassis roll does the angle of the shocks have? Everything I've read says that the angle affects the spring rate, but I have to believe that there is more to it. Could someone please explain how changing the angle of the shock changes how the car "feels" or drives on the track?

With the "spec" tire and 21.5/lipo option, I now have time to work on setup. I am starting to have fun seeing how setup changes actually improve lap times. This is another part of the VTA experience that really make this a good class.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:20 AM   #282
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(PAST) My setup problem in R/C is that I'm always afraid to change things on a race day when I think I have a driveable car. I really have never learned how the minor setup changes I make affect the "feel" of the car.
..................................
(PRESENT) With the "spec" tire and 21.5/lipo option, I now have time to work on setup. I am starting to have fun seeing how setup changes actually improve lap times. This is another part of the VTA experience that really make this a good class.
WINNER WINNER, CHICKEN DINNER!

This is the reason why this class has great appeal and is good for the hobby!
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:37 PM   #283
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My setup problem in R/C is that I'm always afraid to change things on a race day when I think I have a driveable car. I really have never learned how the minor setup changes I make affect the "feel" of the car.

On Friday I played around with angle of the front shocks on my TC3. I wanted a little more turn-in but didn't want to go to softer front springs. I layed the front shocks all the way down and felt that the front end had more roll, but it also had more grip. The affect was as the grip came up in the main plus my setup change that my TC3 had better steering overall which helped me drive better on our tight layout. I was the only car to average under 10 second laps for the 8 minute main!

My question is what affect on chassis roll does the angle of the shocks have? Everything I've read says that the angle affects the spring rate, but I have to believe that there is more to it. Could someone please explain how changing the angle of the shock changes how the car "feels" or drives on the track?

.
Well man your cars always look pretty good in the corners but with regaurds to shock angle and grip....The more you lay down your shocks makes the springs and dampening softer...It makes the car more progressive instead of aggressive and it gives the car more lateral grip or side bite you could say....It opens it up for a thicker oil and stiffer or softer spring....But tuning with shock angle is the only way I have ever been able to get more turn in well you can do it with oil but thats about it when it comes to shocks and springs....Springs in general will only affect exit and mid corner as far as Ive noticed......Thats just great now you have found another way to go faster......
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Old 02-16-2009, 08:29 PM   #284
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Default RDX

I ran this set up tonight

http://www.teamcorally.com.au/shop/d...-20_221546.pdf...without the sway bars

The car is very comfortable to drive and very different from our previous set- ups. I have never had the rear or front roll center this high, nor have I used kick up in the front before.

Last edited by miket3; 02-16-2009 at 09:11 PM.
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:15 AM   #285
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Does anyone know what gearing combo will work in a tc3 for 17.5 4 cell to reach 3.5 fdr without having to modify the chassis?Should also note I would like to stick with 64p.Thanks
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