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Old 02-10-2009, 04:35 PM   #256
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So which chassis design is the more efficient one(shaft or belt)?
Dave
I'm trying my TC3. I got tired of being driven away from even with a perfect line.
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Old 02-10-2009, 04:38 PM   #257
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I'm trying my TC3. I got tired of being driven away from even with a perfect line.

I'm glad I switched to the TC3 so far... I was withing 4.5 sec of TQ on Sunday and I certainly did NOT drive a perfect line
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:39 PM   #258
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So which chassis design is the more efficient one(shaft or belt)?
Dave
I ask basically the same question. I was looking at stepping up to a Evo V- shaft drive from a TA05R.

People pointed out, the winners at the big Novak race were belt TA05Rs. At someone else's track the fast guy runs the same.

From the responses, I don't think there really is an advantage either way at USVTA speeds.
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:05 PM   #259
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I think possibly at smaller tracks w/Ttighter layouts a shaft drive may have a small advantage..They have always seemed a have a little more torque as long as the car has been gone through and is extremly free.....The belt drive seems to be more efficent and smooth. On a big track with a flowing layout I think the belt drive cars carry more speed and transition better since there is hardly any rotating mass to speek of to slow them down....My 2 Cents
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:23 PM   #260
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Going to 2* makes the rear end want to skid, where as before the car wanted to traction roll with 4*. I like the slight drift vs. the traction roll.

If you have some suggestions Mike let us know. Your cars are always awesome.
Good point never really thought of it that way.......But I would think that could depending on the car,setup and driver and or driving style that might amplifiy the problem...If your car was allready some what loose or normally loose it might work but if your car was border line pushing and you removed caster the increase in turn in might catapult the car over......The true point lies in testing to much caster and your riding the inside edge of you tire due effective camber or camber gain....We need 3 degree and 5 degree blocks or run anti dive or pro dive to hit the perfect caster.....I just hate the sacrifice of either entry or mid corner.....That would make layouts like sunday's ruff comin out of the sweeper to the 180 without enuff turn in or not having enough mid corner at that speed into the next corner....Its just a fine line which probaly lies within dampening and springs and sway bar selection to optimize life and the traction these tires give......If any of you guys run 17.5 rubber tire at Harbor would be awesome to get some of those setups just to compare...
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:25 PM   #261
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Just out of curiosity how many of you guys are goin to the ROAR region 5 race at Summit in Ft.Wayne,In????
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:27 PM   #262
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Just out of curiosity how many of you guys are goin to the ROAR region 5 race at Summit in Ft.Wayne,In????
I plan on being there.....robk too
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:30 PM   #263
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I plan on being there.....robk too
Sweet man the more the better thats for sure........
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:11 PM   #264
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I don't have much T/C experience but get confused with the affects of more or less caster.

my RDX manual says

MORE caster- Will give stability,especially at high speeds. more caster generally suits large open high speed tracks.

LESS caster- will increase steering drastically. Steering feels more direct, so the car turns tighter and faster. Small amounts of caster suits for tight tracks.

If I understand you Rob, your saying by making the steering faster and more aggresive instead of rolling the car will actually break the rear tires loose and the slide will stop the car from rolling ?

I have until yesterday always ran my rear roll center at #2 and the front at #1. Do most guys run them level ? If so where low or high ?

My car is good at Michiana, Indy and underground, and terrible at Ft Wayne VTA race and The Track VTA race ? Brian loaned me new tires for the front and that stopped the rolling, but picked up a push. I struggled all day with both cars and am sorry to say i was happy when the day was over and could start the 3HR drive home.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:09 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by miket3 View Post
I don't have much T/C experience but get confused with the affects of more or less caster.

my RDX manual says

MORE caster- Will give stability,especially at high speeds. more caster generally suits large open high speed tracks.

LESS caster- will increase steering drastically. Steering feels more direct, so the car turns tighter and faster. Small amounts of caster suits for tight tracks.

If I understand you Rob, your saying by making the steering faster and more aggresive instead of rolling the car will actually break the rear tires loose and the slide will stop the car from rolling ?

I have until yesterday always ran my rear roll center at #2 and the front at #1. Do most guys run them level ? If so where low or high ?

My car is good at Michiana, Indy and underground, and terrible at Ft Wayne VTA race and The Track VTA race ? Brian loaned me new tires for the front and that stopped the rolling, but picked up a push. I struggled all day with both cars and am sorry to say i was happy when the day was over and could start the 3HR drive home.
If you read 1:1 car setup books, or look at oval discussions, what caster does is jack weight diagonally across the car. So more caster = more weight at the other side's rear tire. It also increases camber gain. You're moving the weight to the outside of the car, and all the sudden it's the Joie Chitwood stunt show. Your car will be more reactive off center, but not horribly so. Usually, less caster produces more low speed steering, more caster more high speed steering.

It's hard to give a definite answer on the roll center height. Usually for rubber tire it's higher. I have seen a lot of guys run the front pins higher than the rear. Higher pins in the rear, like you have, tend to break the rear end loose before the front, so the car steers all the way through the corner. That is popular with foam.
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Last edited by robk; 02-10-2009 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 02-11-2009, 04:18 AM   #266
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Thats some good Info^^^^ Rob....As far as roll center goes I myself find High roll center in the front to be helpfull in removing a little steering speacially when runnin a oneway, As far as a spool goes just talkin about that makes my stomach hurt.....High roll center will decrease your roll and low roll center will increase the roll as I know it ( plus I checked it in the xray setup book).....The funny thing I always find is in looking at other setups or setup sheets for example look at xray's site and checkout lemieux's setup compared to Wiess's setup or even Andrew Ellis setup and you will see there are complete difference's and there all from the same race so the track condition is the same???....I would like to thank Rob and all the guys posting on here w/opinons and facts as this will only help increase the popularity of this class by showing that were here to help.......Remember Pistons and oil weights also help control steering and playing around with differences in all these things will make you better as long as you remember or document your change and what it did for the car.......There is no MAGIC SETUP.........If so Rob,Kevin,Brian or Brad must have it as they always look good as they fly by me.....But they are also better drivers.....So maybe your like me my setup is fine but my drivin not so fine....

Keep posting.........Hope you dont pass me as much at the regionals....Rob
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Old 02-11-2009, 07:01 AM   #267
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Thanks Rob ans Steve for the info. I will do more testing with the lower caster settings and try the higher roll centers.

thanks again for the info.
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:51 AM   #268
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Thanks Rob ans Steve for the info. I will do more testing with the lower caster settings and try the higher roll centers.

thanks again for the info.
Mike hope to see you at the regionals and the nationals......Its not the same when you dont get to race "THE HAMMER".......Keep posting your finding...
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:13 AM   #269
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I have not noticed that my TC3 is any slower down the straights than belt drive cars. At Harbor Hobbies on Sunday, from the half-way point on the straight to the end of the sweeper I was able to gain a bit on most cars. I probably was a little over-geared and my setup was a bit soft/slow coming onto the straight which is where I seemed to lose a little power.

One thing I have noticed in VTA over the past few months is that all the cars are very close in speed on the straights. I know I'm being out-driven in the turns, so I worry more about my setup and driving than anything else.

I'm still scratching my head on traction rolling though. We had a TC4 from Indy that we could not stop rolling. We never adjusted caster blocks or dampening, but newer fronts at least made the car driveable. I am tempted to buy the NIB Carbon TC4 that is sitting on the shelf at my local hobby store just to try some setups on that car.
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Old 02-11-2009, 09:58 AM   #270
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Indy....I wonder if the TC4 was tweaked I never really noticed it rolling both during left and right turns.......Plus it really seemed to just turn right over without giving any identification on weather or not it began in the front cause it was soft or it began in the rear due to to much roll.....Normally traction rollin always begins in the frnt but the FT TC4 seems to have excessive roll in the rear and always seemed inconsistent on carpet. Wandering if Rob's idea with applying 2 degree caster blocks would help and then try 50wt oil 2 clicks on his xray shocks and green associated springs 1 hole up on the tower...3 clicks in the rear w/30wt and silver springs. Also up 1 hole small rear sway and try that.....I think I might take his car to the regionals and run a couple laps with it if he dont make it.....
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