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Old 01-24-2009, 01:57 PM   #421
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Will the multi diff for the 2007 work with 2008 0r 2009 also will the delrin spool work, using the 34 tooth pulley thanks
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:22 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by JoeGlover View Post
What is your set-up on the front of the car? What tire? What body? Is the car loose on entry/exit? Here is a link to my set-up updated as of Wednesday.

http://forum.teamxray.com/xform/inde...3&setup=t2_008
Mostly lose on entry, inconsistent. My setup is very close to yours except I'm running 1mm front droop and front roll center high, 1.6 bar in front and 1.2in rear. Speed 6(wing pushed back), jaco blues / jack, LRP - punch 8 / trinity 13.5 same brake settings as you. Pretty obvious that you like a little more steering from your setup.

Don't get me wrong the car is very quick, it's just a handful to drive, feels like it's on the edge. The 008 on the other hand feels very planted.

When I pulled the rear bar off last night for the main it was better. The real kick in the butt was, the car wanted to traction roll in the sweeper with no rear bar, when the tires warmed up but, it was still a little lose in the infield!

I did try the LTC body last night which may have been a factor (usually run speed 6) but they're pretty similar in terms of feel.
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:32 PM   #423
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Gary, can you measure your front/rear weight distribution on your 008 vs 009? Either with scales or finding the front/rear balance point on a straight edge.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:25 PM   #424
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Well you could try the 3.0 spring up front and take the 1mm shim above the c-hub out and only sauce half the front tires. Sounds more like the front has a lot more grip than the rear so I think the set-up issue might be more to do with the front of the car intead of the rear.

If you still are having issue try running a mazda 6. It has less front downforce than the speed 6, but I think those changes are going to be plenty.

I am running a different tire as well which could be part of it. I found the Jaco blue's to be a great tire on higher grip carpet, not so much on low grip.

Yes I do prefer a car that steers a lot, but have been able to get away with it only using what I need and when I do ned a little more I just turn the wheel more
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:39 PM   #425
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Thanks Joe, I'll pull the front outer shim and try the 3.0s as well. Maybe I've been focusing on the wrong end of the car.

Jim C.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:53 PM   #426
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What size are the bearing that come with the Alum Steering block upgrade?

If you took out the insert, I think you can run 5x10x4's. Would this effect anything?
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Old 01-24-2009, 11:39 PM   #427
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I think the bearing in the xray aluminum knuckles and hub carriers are 5X9X3mm. You may be able to fit the standard 5X10X4 by removing the insert but it's much harder on the bearings, you're more likely to shatter the inner and have the outer race get jammed in the hub. IMO
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:01 AM   #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcar951 View Post
Mostly lose on entry, inconsistent. My setup is very close to yours except I'm running 1mm front droop and front roll center high, 1.6 bar in front and 1.2in rear. Speed 6(wing pushed back), jaco blues / jack, LRP - punch 8 / trinity 13.5 same brake settings as you. Pretty obvious that you like a little more steering from your setup.

Don't get me wrong the car is very quick, it's just a handful to drive, feels like it's on the edge. The 008 on the other hand feels very planted.

When I pulled the rear bar off last night for the main it was better. The real kick in the butt was, the car wanted to traction roll in the sweeper with no rear bar, when the tires warmed up but, it was still a little lose in the infield!

I did try the LTC body last night which may have been a factor (usually run speed 6) but they're pretty similar in terms of feel.
I have found that a lot of it is traction dependant. I have run the same setup on a low bite track and car drives like a drift car to running on a track with grip and it being on rails.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:18 AM   #429
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pcar951, did you say that removing the rear sway bar made it less loose in the rear? I had the same problem at our club race last night in the main.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:11 AM   #430
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If you are loose on entry you could try going thicker shock oil in the front. This will also help cure your traction role problem if your car is rolling over on it's nose. By going to thicker oil it should reduce the weight transfer to the front of the car.
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Old 01-25-2009, 03:34 PM   #431
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Interesting that this exact discussion has just come up.
Today we raced at a new venue which had brand new carpet layed out yesterday, 32m*16m.
This meant we went from no grip to fairly high grip in one day. The track was pretty flowing.

EWCC Stock Final


I run 10.5.
Started with the following, which I used at a 'Friday' night club in a small hall, it was pretty stable but seemed to be almost too easy to drive, which meant I couln't be as aggressive as I wanted to. But other than that, fine;

Asphalt Top Deck

FRNT:
0 toe out
4 degrees castor
high roll center
1.6 sway
3 holes in upper shock mount
40wt oil
2.8 springs
1 camber
1mm shim at c hub
Upper inside camber link mount
ackerman 2 or 3 (never can tell) and outside at steering block
5 droop (Guage)
Spool
5.5 ride height
1 wheelbase
Additive on half the tyre


REAR:
3 toe
shocks 4th hole in
2.6 springs
30 wt oil
1.5 degrees camber
roll center standard
5.5mm ride height
4 droop (Guage)
1mm shim at upright
Upper inside link mnt
1 Wheelbase
Additive full width

I felt the car was going off at about 4 mins and suspected that the tyres were overheating. I put the alu pillar in and this made it consistant for the whole 5mins.

Then on the 3rd run tried with the standard top deck, removed the pillar, car was certainly more on edge, but fairly stable (I had almost no steering for the first couple of laps). Other guys far better than me said it looked good on track

4th run , additive full width on front (to prevent the early understeer), but it was only on about 5 mins so the whole run was pretty crap.

5th run, back to ashalt top deck with pillar, 1.5mm front roll bar, 1.2mm rear, but grip was coming up a lot now and spent half my run grip rolling, nightmare.

Following conversations with a couple of team drivers (including Elliot Harper) I tried heavier rear oil, they were up to around 700 on Much More stuff.
So I went for 35 rear oil and 3.0 front springs and standard top deck. (THey were also using HPI gold front and silver rear springs)

Steering was superb but it had a nasty habit of snapping out when trying to carry a lot of speed through the corners which hadn't happend all day. I had to adjust my driving to the car, although it was still pretty quick I couldn't trust it enough to chuck it around.

In summary, if your running on low grip, use the asphalt top deck and stiffen the front slightly and run more rear toe.

Hope some of that is of use
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Last edited by Skiddins; 01-25-2009 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:37 PM   #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshap33 View Post
Will the multi diff for the 2007 work with 2008 0r 2009 also will the delrin spool work, using the 34 tooth pulley thanks
You have to shim the multi diff to get it to line up right, but it will work.
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:23 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFALLON View Post
pcar951, did you say that removing the rear sway bar made it less loose in the rear? I had the same problem at our club race last night in the main.
The car wanted to traction roll (lifting inside front tire) but never actually did. I will go back to maybe a 1.1 or 1.2 bar in the rear this week and test some of Joe's front end setup.

I've tried 3.0's in front and heavier damping but the car doesn't transfer enough weight forward early in the turn. I don't want to kill all the entry steering for the sake of an easy drive.
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:33 PM   #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skiddins View Post
Asphalt Top Deck

FRNT:
0 toe out
4 degrees castor
high roll center
1.6 sway
3 holes in upper shock mount
40wt oil
2.8 springs
1 camber
1mm shim at c hub
Upper inside camber link mount
ackerman 2 or 3 (never can tell) and outside at steering block
5 droop (Guage)
Spool
5.5 ride height
1 wheelbase
Additive on half the tyre


REAR:
3 toe
shocks 4th hole in
2.6 springs
30 wt oil
1.5 degrees camber
roll center standard
5.5mm ride height
4 droop (Guage)
1mm shim at upright
Upper inside link mnt
1 Wheelbase
Additive full width


Skiddins
You're running alot of droop.....hmmm. Does the car feel lazy? I've never run that low on the blocks, maybe it's worth a try if it doesn't cook the tires. I've never had any luck running carpet without the center post (008 or 009), it's good for about 2.5 minutes for me, then it's a twichfest. thanks

Jim
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:46 PM   #435
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Hey Jim, just a crazy question, but have you tried to run that setup without using your tire warmers? I assume your still running on the JACO blues??
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