maxg123456

Hi,

It makes sense that you are getting low speed understeer. I race on a circuit with particularly tight radius corners, like yours. But you also run with less power and a smaller circuit, so I dont think you get as much tire overheating as I do.

I think the cause of your understeer is down to the thick front bar. 1.6 is very stiff and I find more suited to a wider radius corner. (Especially when the rear has a thin bar already). Put that lower deck motor mount screw back also, as i'm going by your setup sheet, and also use 450 oil all round in the shocks as the reaction will be faster entering the tight hairpins.

Regarding the rear toe. When I try it, it never works in giving better lap times, yet the two fastest guys at my club swear by it lol! I dont think it does anything other than reduce stability. The car doesn't give faster times in my opinion. 3 deg toe in is enough.

I also run 90-95 Dual rate. The TC5 is a great car, as it generates grip from the off, but in terms of corner speed the xray I think has the edge.

This is the place I race at - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOUP_...eature=related

orci77

I just ordered a 1,4mm front bar and will see how it works.
Hmm, since I only have 400, 500 and 600 oil I can try 400 all around. Do you think "50" makes the difference?
Since I ordered also some shims, I will try to reduce the rear toe and see how it goes for me.

I found a list by Alex Hagberg:
There are numerous changes which will help for mid corner steering.
- softer front spring
- thicker rear swaybar
- front anti-dive
- less rear toe-in
- add shims under the outside of the front upper link
- front diff in low position
- more front downtravel
- weight bias more towards the front

I run full dual rate but with a little bit of expo. Also I adjusted the balance (EPA) to max, i.e. before you hear the servo jam.

Don't tell my friends. We have a Xray vs. TAE battle

Are you on the video too?

Lonestar

iTrader: (14)

Hi guys, it might be a long shot, but if anyone has a 6c 2.5mm (EU) CWF chassis for a good price, new or very lightly used, I could be interested. Please shoot me a PM. thanks

Paul

maxg123456

Yes I am. the silver car. Car 7. That wasn't such a good day for me. It was a big UK event, so at least it was still A final. This was with the T3 11'.

I have to say that I ran last night with both the T3 11' and the 008. I did the first 3 heats with the T3 11' and the car is just too stuck at the rear for me, despite changes.

I ran the 008 in the final and straight away went a 10th faster in laptime and is just plain more exciting to drive. I could enter all the corners on the wrong line and it still exits great and the cars I was following in the heats were way easier to overtake.

The 008 just pivots much faster. I must say, i'm pretty gutted about this, as the old car shouldn't be faster lol. For a very tight track, you cannot go wrong. I think my driving style is really for the old car and i'm having a tough time of it with the new one. My friend who had a 009 and went to the T3 11' is having the same problem.

The changes you're putting accross should work. 400 cst will be fine. I'm sure you need the car to be a bit more unstable for 17.5. More opposite to me. I wouldn't do the front diff in low position. It feels very strange to drive. Don't go too soft on the front spring, as it will make the car lazier. 2.8 would be about right. I tried 2.6/2.6 on the T3 and it was too lazy to drive. The front dived and then responded, so you can go too far. When I went from 1.4 front bar to 1.2 with a 2.8 spring and that was a decent change without murdering the characteristics of the car.

orci77

Hi guys,
I am back from training and like to give you some feedback.
Unfortunately not all parts have arrived in time, especially the 1,4 front bar and some shims to reduce the rear toe.

This time I was on an even smaller and tighter track: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv5hZISrX30

As you could imagine I had a big issue with too less rear grip.

Since I was limited in the changes I could do, I did the following tweaks:

1. First I changed the rear anti-roll bar position from the outer ball to the inner ball. This gave me same less oversteer but not enough.
2. Then I put a 1mm shim below the front steering blocks to decrease bump steering. This made the car go better into corners.
3. Then we found out that the tires are not good for the car. I use self-build tires made from Sweep components (QTS 28R with red carpet mold). There is much "air" within the tire because the mold is quite small. We tried some tires with a big and harder mold and with this the car behaviour has change very much. It stayed on the line and the oversteering was much better controllable. Since I borrowed the tires I change to some used Sorex 28R. They were not as good as the borrowed tires but much better than the Sweeps.
4. But the big thing was changing the rear roll center. I changed the quick roll center from 3 to 2 and voila! The car drives incredible. It is not possible to push the car into oversteer doesnt matter what you do on the steering wheel. Unfortunately I lost steering but it was okay because I could now reduce the -15% curve on my remote.

I started with a lap time of 11,2s and ended at 10,379s which was 0,050s above the best lap time. I think that I will fine tune a little bit more to have more steering and only as much grip as necessary to have less resistance.

orci77

I just want to give my TRF damper a try on the Xray.
The plastic damper seem to be ok but I have some trouble to get them air bubble free. Also the previous owner seem to glue the lower cap to the damper body!?

I searched this thread for this an found some entries around page 95.
There it is said that only the on the lower arm a 2mm shim is used. What I see now is that the upper cap is very close to the damper stay. I move the suspension by hand and it looks that it could work.
Does anybody has experience with this or any good advice?

maxg123456

[QUOTE=orci77;8717661][*]But the big thing was changing the rear roll center. I changed the quick roll center from 3 to 2 and voila! The car drives incredible. QUOTE]

LOL. Thats the thing i've been raving on about for a long time on here. Its not really roll centre thats making the back end stick. Its the camber link angle (and/or length) at the rear. Forget the roll centre business. I prefer the term, camber change, because this is whats making the car stick, particularly on corner entry.

I got my Xray T3 11' working great and this was due to a combination of minor setup changes and getting it to work for the way I drive. If I ever had oversteer on my 009, the things I found that worked best at eliminating it, was making the rear camber change increase, raising the front droop gauge level to 6.5 from 6 and running thicker front shock oil by around 200 cst.

On my T3 11' it was understeer (on throttle mainly), so I moved the rear wing forwards. Next, I softened the front bar from 1.4 to 1.2 and kept all chassis screws in barring the front two and the car has heaps of steering but with the stability. Its all about knowing what to do in certain track conditions and layouts, which is what i've been lacking at for a long time.

hana166

iTrader: (2)

So what are you doing with the camber link exactly to make it stick, or rotate?

orci77

For sure you are right that this changes the CAMBER RISE / INTAKE but what I did was adjusting the roll center to achieve it.
Directly after I changed from quick roll center 3 to 2 my camber changed from -1,5° to +2°C so I shortened the upper camber link to get back to -1,5°.
So I propose we are both right

@hana166: Just have a look on your Xray Setup Book regarding Camber Rise.

DBL15

iTrader: (8)

Hi Guys

just picked up a XRAY T2 2009

was wondering which body's fit these cars 200mm or the 190mm ?

runnning completely stock class no timing etc on esc

my Speed Passion Competition V3 motor can have up to 10" deg timing but i don't know how to make that happen with the motor , i guess you have to pull the motor apart and rotate the sensor plug around to the 10 deg mark?

vr6cj

iTrader: (124)

190mm and yes.

Nilks

Loosen the 3 screws on the front of the motor. When all 3 screws have let go of the endbell, push the screws, and the endbell will pop out. Then you can turn the sensor plug, and put it all back together again.

DBL15

iTrader: (8)

so been reading a few threads on the timing advancement on the motors

so i really do it ? as in is there much to gain performance wise? or just gear it to suit the standard motor timing?

right now i am running 32 / 72 and i am at top speed 1/2 way down the straights

i am buying a few more pinions to try even right up to a 39 / 72 for speed but it might kill my low speed corners

i was thinking timing would fix this but after reading all the threads it seems ajusting the timing might not be the answer

talking 25 to 30m long straights

Nilks

Motor timing is more of a personal preference than power improvement. But some motors are slow if they are incorrectly timed on the endbell - eg. the Speed Passion V3.

ESC timing is the real deal here. It times the motor for both acceleration AND topspeed.

But this isn't a thread for ESC, motors or timing. Try to find a thread regarding your ESC and ask there.

DBL15

iTrader: (8)

mate i thought this was a set up thread for T2's and thats what i was asking yeh it might have been pinion and spur info but its still apart of setting the car up

stock class no timing on esc allowed so that takes that part of it , hense my question

i know i can ask motor question in motor threads but then they all say it depends on car and gearing etc , so i asked here in a xray thread