2897Likes1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever...
11-25-2011, 07:08 PM
#3346
Odin, for me the reason that this is debated so much on the various F1 threads is because I believe that representatives of the various F1 rc manufacturers do read these forums(maybe I'm nieave) and that gives us a chance to let them know what we are looking for with regards to future F1 cars that they may offer.
So far, from what I've read; the majority seem to prefer the scale approach over the all-out performance approach. I notice that many clubs across the country mix the various width cars to have enough for a strong F1 class; that's fine. The majority also appear to favor the rubber tires over the foams as they are more real looking and they don't have rollout issues or tire chunking with the rubber tires.
It has been commented by some that the major problem F1 has is that not all the manufacturers are on the same page with regards to what their respective F1 designs are. We have 180mm, 200mm, 190mm, solid axle, independent suspension, "psuedo" F1 cars like the Corally, etc, etc. It would be great if they all were heading in the same direction. There should also be a standard wheel/tire that fits ALL F1 cars, instead of some having proprietary wheels/tires for their car only. Also, the wings and bodies should be interchangeable as well.
For me the "ultimate" F1 rc car would have independent suspension at all four corners with tiny inboard shocks front and rear like the real cars. It would also be 2wd just like real F1. The maximum width would be 190mm; a good middle ground between 180 and 200mm. It would use Tamiya wheels and be able to use Tamiya bodies and wings as well as HPI and 3 Racing, etc.
The 3 Racing FGX is somewhat close, but lacks in some key areas of what I described.
I do hope the F1 rc manufacturers are indeed reading this thread.
So far, from what I've read; the majority seem to prefer the scale approach over the all-out performance approach. I notice that many clubs across the country mix the various width cars to have enough for a strong F1 class; that's fine. The majority also appear to favor the rubber tires over the foams as they are more real looking and they don't have rollout issues or tire chunking with the rubber tires.
It has been commented by some that the major problem F1 has is that not all the manufacturers are on the same page with regards to what their respective F1 designs are. We have 180mm, 200mm, 190mm, solid axle, independent suspension, "psuedo" F1 cars like the Corally, etc, etc. It would be great if they all were heading in the same direction. There should also be a standard wheel/tire that fits ALL F1 cars, instead of some having proprietary wheels/tires for their car only. Also, the wings and bodies should be interchangeable as well.
For me the "ultimate" F1 rc car would have independent suspension at all four corners with tiny inboard shocks front and rear like the real cars. It would also be 2wd just like real F1. The maximum width would be 190mm; a good middle ground between 180 and 200mm. It would use Tamiya wheels and be able to use Tamiya bodies and wings as well as HPI and 3 Racing, etc.
The 3 Racing FGX is somewhat close, but lacks in some key areas of what I described.
I do hope the F1 rc manufacturers are indeed reading this thread.
11-25-2011, 08:48 PM
#3347
Well, this does say F1 pictures or whatever...so I feel this debate is okay when people start talking about what to do about getting more people into the class.
This is my current F1 collection:
There's an HPI Super F1, an F104X1, and an F201. Three very different philosophies regarding what an F1 should be. Foam, rubber, 210, 180, 2wd, 4wd. Number of choices.
So those who say it's not a good idea to limit an "open" class, take a look at that Super F1. The pan car tires on it are not an upgrade, that's how the kit came stock. The chassis, even by today's standard, are pretty advanced and works very well. At the time, it was almost a $300 chassis and if you weren't running it or the Corraly, you weren't competitive. These increasing chassis costs, lack of traction on parking lot surfaces, and the popularity growth of Sedan all killed F1 then.
Now you may argue that the chassis doesn't make the driver and I agree with you completely. What that doesn't address is the perspective of new racers coming into the class. Go look at threads now where people are asking which chassis is the most competitive chassis for F1. Now rules limiting width won't stop this, but the Super F1's tires shows what happens when you DON'T write rules for things. There were no tire rules and thus HPI took advantage of that slip and built something to run full width pan car tires in F1 and overnight made the F103s that most folks ran obsolete. (The front suspension on that car is more realistic than the F103 or F104 yet has adjustments for camber and castor...it's a pretty slick front end and bolts right onto an F103 chassis.)
The reality is that you have two choices, write a ton or rules that limit what the cars can and can't be in exchange for possibly fewer drivers right now or leave the rules open for everyone right now and run the risk of a car coming out that makes everything else in the class obsolete and, in doing so, pull the class away from it's scale roots. Most classes try to balance the two.
This is my current F1 collection:
There's an HPI Super F1, an F104X1, and an F201. Three very different philosophies regarding what an F1 should be. Foam, rubber, 210, 180, 2wd, 4wd. Number of choices.
So those who say it's not a good idea to limit an "open" class, take a look at that Super F1. The pan car tires on it are not an upgrade, that's how the kit came stock. The chassis, even by today's standard, are pretty advanced and works very well. At the time, it was almost a $300 chassis and if you weren't running it or the Corraly, you weren't competitive. These increasing chassis costs, lack of traction on parking lot surfaces, and the popularity growth of Sedan all killed F1 then.
Now you may argue that the chassis doesn't make the driver and I agree with you completely. What that doesn't address is the perspective of new racers coming into the class. Go look at threads now where people are asking which chassis is the most competitive chassis for F1. Now rules limiting width won't stop this, but the Super F1's tires shows what happens when you DON'T write rules for things. There were no tire rules and thus HPI took advantage of that slip and built something to run full width pan car tires in F1 and overnight made the F103s that most folks ran obsolete. (The front suspension on that car is more realistic than the F103 or F104 yet has adjustments for camber and castor...it's a pretty slick front end and bolts right onto an F103 chassis.)
The reality is that you have two choices, write a ton or rules that limit what the cars can and can't be in exchange for possibly fewer drivers right now or leave the rules open for everyone right now and run the risk of a car coming out that makes everything else in the class obsolete and, in doing so, pull the class away from it's scale roots. Most classes try to balance the two.
11-25-2011, 08:59 PM
#3348
I have several of the 1/10 "pancar" F1's, corally, CRC, HPI converted associated 10L's and such. They are fun to drive on those no race today times when an old 19T is fast enough. But racedays are for all "Tamiya" based cars around here which is fine. Even Alphacat has parked the fast Alpha F1's In favor of the scale cars.
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
11-25-2011, 10:57 PM
#3349
I have several of the 1/10 "pancar" F1's, corally, CRC, HPI converted associated 10L's and such. They are fun to drive on those no race today times when an old 19T is fast enough. But racedays are for all "Tamiya" based cars around here which is fine. Even Alphacat has parked the fast Alpha F1's In favor of the scale cars.
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
11-25-2011, 11:01 PM
#3350
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I have several of the 1/10 "pancar" F1's, corally, CRC, HPI converted associated 10L's and such. They are fun to drive on those no race today times when an old 19T is fast enough. But racedays are for all "Tamiya" based cars around here which is fine. Even Alphacat has parked the fast Alpha F1's In favor of the scale cars.
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
Now a question, I have the bridgstone tires on my F109. It has the rubber inserts like the F103 but this thing will not even park without spinning around. Forget about going into a turn at any speed, It is not going to happen. I would like to have foam to fill the gap and keep the tires more stable. I wonder if cutting some 1/10 buggy foam would help or maybe some from a 1/18 if those things even use them. Any thoughts on this?
11-25-2011, 11:47 PM
#3351
I'm all for scale realism and I just don't understand why Ayrton Senna's ride can't run against Alonso's?
I am absolutely not for pan car tires, they've got to be "scale" but 200mm is scale it's just 90s technology.
And as an F103 (Stock) and F104 (Exotek) owner I'd like to bust out my F103 as well before it dies a death.. What about the people who have bought the F109 and F104W ? these are NEW cars that are SCALE...
pfft..
I am absolutely not for pan car tires, they've got to be "scale" but 200mm is scale it's just 90s technology.
And as an F103 (Stock) and F104 (Exotek) owner I'd like to bust out my F103 as well before it dies a death.. What about the people who have bought the F109 and F104W ? these are NEW cars that are SCALE...
pfft..
11-26-2011, 05:44 AM
#3353
Hi, You can probably find the decals at F1 Paintlab or D-Drive Sports in
the UK. Good Luck.
Norman2
the UK. Good Luck.
Norman2
11-26-2011, 05:55 AM
#3354
Try Patto's Place. He makes just about any decal set you can think of, current and vintage. Check out my old F104 in his Gallery (Toro Roso courtesy of Christian Jones):
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html
11-26-2011, 06:46 AM
#3355
11-26-2011, 08:21 AM
#3356
Both width cars are scale. It is just which era of car do you want. F1 changed to the modern style of car and one of the things they did was reduce mechanical grip. Surprising how in the scaled down version the same thing happened. Tire manufactures stepped up and changed compounds to help restore some of this loss of grip in F1. RC tire manufactures are just starting to do the same. All I know is anyone running Tamiya tires on a 104 needs to just stop torturing themselves and get better tires.
More than width of car maybe the rules should be based on the tire? Is a wider car going to really work better if it runs the same width tires as the narrow car? Run the 103s and 104s and 104w together just make them all use the same size tire.
More than width of car maybe the rules should be based on the tire? Is a wider car going to really work better if it runs the same width tires as the narrow car? Run the 103s and 104s and 104w together just make them all use the same size tire.
11-26-2011, 12:07 PM
#3357
I'd still like to know if someone has both cars, 180mm and 200mm, with both running on the latest rubber will the 103/200mm cars on rubber even keep up now with the F104/180mm cars on the new Pits Shimz?
Might be ok to run them both together now? That would be awesome if they were comparable.
If the same width tires were run on all of the different chassis, 200mm and 180mm as suggested a couple posts back, the rear of the 200mm cars would need to be widened to remain 200mm. Advantage? Who knows? As of now, those cars when running the same tires would be 180mm rear and still 200mm front which is why the front ends get changed to the F104 type in order to narrow them to 180mm.
Racer X1 I remember those days at West Coast when the WD 40 was gluing the cars down, the foam was almost a disadvantage, they basically did not work to their full potential and the rubber was not far off the pace. Generally this is not the case tho and the foams will destroy the rubber cars.
Might be ok to run them both together now? That would be awesome if they were comparable.
If the same width tires were run on all of the different chassis, 200mm and 180mm as suggested a couple posts back, the rear of the 200mm cars would need to be widened to remain 200mm. Advantage? Who knows? As of now, those cars when running the same tires would be 180mm rear and still 200mm front which is why the front ends get changed to the F104 type in order to narrow them to 180mm.
Racer X1 I remember those days at West Coast when the WD 40 was gluing the cars down, the foam was almost a disadvantage, they basically did not work to their full potential and the rubber was not far off the pace. Generally this is not the case tho and the foams will destroy the rubber cars.
11-26-2011, 01:04 PM
#3358
I have F103 on 103 wide Pit tires (sanded to 100% contact patch) and F104 on Tamiya rubber. I find the F104 slightly faster on our indoor asphalt track (better turn in). Silvercans.
11-26-2011, 03:32 PM
#3360
Try Patto's Place. He makes just about any decal set you can think of, current and vintage. Check out my old F104 in his Gallery (Toro Roso courtesy of Christian Jones):
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html
http://members.optusnet.com.au/pattosplace/home.html
And that doesnt even include the crazy shipping charges.