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1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever...

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1/10 R/C F1's...Pics, Discussions, Whatever...

Old 05-31-2016, 04:45 PM
  #12196  
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Originally Posted by astgerma52sp
Why does the rotor have to be 12.3 in this motor rule? Why not leave it as 12.5; which seems to be just about what all these 25.5 motors are.
I question the change to 25.5 in the first place. They should be going faster not slower. IMHO
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Old 05-31-2016, 05:02 PM
  #12197  
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It was started by the socal guys because of a decline in F1 participation and in hope of bringing closer racing. Up here in norcal, we have pretty good and close racing. In our general area, we had roughly 10 different F1 winners in the last year maintaining our 21.5 rules. No other class up here has this many different winners.
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Old 05-31-2016, 05:13 PM
  #12198  
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I was against the 25.5 rule when it came out as well. But, I will say, the racing is closer with them, than 21.5. 21.5 was close to, don't get me wrong, but with 25.5 it is almost a crap shoot As to who wins when all drive comparable. As for the rotor, I have no clue why the 12.3 was speced and not just leave the 12.5, since most motor manufacturers include the 12.5 with their existing 25.5 motors.
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Old 06-01-2016, 06:52 AM
  #12199  
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I have no problem with a few smaller indoor tracks creating a 25.5 motor rule to improve a sportsman oriented class like F1. Pulling a motor and dropping in the correct motor, or swapping rotors, is childs play.


It's when tracks have tons of weird rules that apply only to that track, that I get a bit miffed. Or when we start creating multiple classes of the exact same thing.

One simple motor swap is no big deal. I keep a 17.5, 21.5, and 25.5 handy anyways. Even if they aren't used all the time, they're still a good source of spare parts.

Novak has one:
http://teamnovak.com/products/index....roducts_id=519
Fantom has one:
https://www.fantomracing.com/products.php?cat=25.5+Turn
Schuur has one:
http://www.schuurspeed.com/index.php...&product_id=65



Even if they haven't been tested and listed by ROAR yet, clubs are going to have to overlook that for a little while if people show up with 25.5's that meet the spec. Can't say "ROAR only" when there aren't any motors listed. Swap a 12.3 rotor into any 25.5 should be "good enough".

Last edited by Zerodefect; 06-01-2016 at 07:08 AM.
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Old 06-01-2016, 07:18 AM
  #12200  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect
I have no problem with a few smaller indoor tracks creating a 25.5 motor rule to improve a sportsman oriented class like F1. Pulling a motor and dropping in the correct motor, or swapping rotors, is childs play.


It's when tracks have tons of weird rules that apply only to that track, that I get a bit miffed. Or when we start creating multiple classes of the exact same thing.

One simple motor swap is no big deal. I keep a 17.5, 21.5, and 25.5 handy anyways. Even if they aren't used all the time, they're still a good source of spare parts.

Novak has one:
http://teamnovak.com/products/index....roducts_id=519
Fantom has one:
https://www.fantomracing.com/products.php?cat=25.5+Turn
Schuur has one:
http://www.schuurspeed.com/index.php...&product_id=65



Even if they haven't been tested and listed by ROAR yet, clubs are going to have to overlook that for a little while if people show up with 25.5's that meet the spec. Can't say "ROAR only" when there aren't any motors listed. Swap a 12.3 rotor into any 25.5 should be "good enough".
Trinity has one as well, a D3.5 and a D4 with 12.3 rotors. Reedy, for example, makes a 25.5, but it comes speced with a 12.5, so, not legal. So, for local racing, if you want to keep with the rules, you can use any 25.5 that has a 12.3 rotor. That is what our track does, except when we hosted the ROAR Nats, then only 2 are legal, the Motiv and Team Scream.
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Old 06-01-2016, 09:03 AM
  #12201  
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I had no idea all that other stuff was going on with the winding style/stack type ect.
I just chose a current roar motor just in case I needed to run at a sanctioned event.
Is there a huge difference in a motors output if the stack type or winding style is not the same as the already approved motors?
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:24 AM
  #12202  
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Originally Posted by j.d.roost
Is there a huge difference in a motors output if the stack type or winding style is not the same as the already approved motors?
Yes there is

Taking the same motor and going from a 19.3mm stack length to a 19.8mm (ROAR minimum for 25.5) stack length is like taking about 3/4 of turn off. The resistance will be approx. 1 milliohm less per pole.

ROAR does have a good rule set in place for 25.5 motors, a 2 pole resistance is also called out.

Here's the rules:

ROAR Spec 25.5 motor: Only three slot "Y" wound stators are permitted. No delta wound or slot less stators are allowed. Only circular (round) pure copper magnet wire permitted. The three slotted stator must be wound with 25.5 turns of two strands of wire with a maximum diameter of .643mm per slot. The minimum resistance between any 2 phases of the motor (AB, AC, BC), when measured at 25C with an Instek GOM 802 milliohm meter, will be no less than 101 milliohms. The stator stack length must be a minimum of 19.7mm and a maximum of 21.0mm. Only 12.3 mm diameter rotors will be permitted in 25.5 Spec motors and the diameter must measure 12.30 +/-.05 mm. The rotor magnet length must be between a minimum of 25.0mm and a maximum of 26.0mm, not including any balancing material."
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:29 AM
  #12203  
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Originally Posted by chensleyrc1
I was against the 25.5 rule when it came out as well. But, I will say, the racing is closer with them, than 21.5. 21.5 was close to, don't get me wrong, but with 25.5 it is almost a crap shoot As to who wins when all drive comparable. As for the rotor, I have no clue why the 12.3 was speced and not just leave the 12.5, since most motor manufacturers include the 12.5 with their existing 25.5 motors.
I would guess for 2 reasons...

1. To keep with what Novak uses for VTA (door is then open to ROAR approved 25.5's for VTA)
2. To slow the cars down even more (smaller diameter and weaker will limit gearing and timing)
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Old 06-01-2016, 10:56 AM
  #12204  
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The two tracks that I am racing F-1 at this summer are running 21.5T or 25.5T in F-1. Whatever you want, we run them all together as a single F-1 class. There are points kept for a series. We are beginning to have an A and B main almost weekly. Am I missing something? Are we doing something wrong?

These are outdoor asphalt temporary parking lot tracks. Fairly large layouts medium grip.
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Old 06-01-2016, 11:00 AM
  #12205  
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Originally Posted by SMcD
The two tracks that I am racing F-1 at this summer are running 21.5T or 25.5T in F-1. Whatever you want, we run them all together as a single F-1 class. There are points kept for a series. We are beginning to have an A and B main almost weekly. Am I missing something? Are we doing something wrong?
Not at all, what works for your track, works for your track. If everyone was of the same talent, the 21.5's would be faster. At our track, we run 25.5 12.3 rotors, not necessarily have to be the 2 approved ones. We usually get an A and B here as well. But, in the end, do what brings the most racers for your area.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:41 PM
  #12206  
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Originally Posted by bertottius
I question the change to 25.5 in the first place. They should be going faster not slower. IMHO
There's other classes for that. That's why I'm also running a 1/12th scale.
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Old 06-01-2016, 01:42 PM
  #12207  
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Originally Posted by Zerodefect
There's other classes for that. That's why I'm also running a 1/12th scale.
It just means we have to keep building the class to the point where we can introduce mod f1!!
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Old 06-01-2016, 02:36 PM
  #12208  
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Originally Posted by sg1
Yes there is

Taking the same motor and going from a 19.3mm stack length to a 19.8mm (ROAR minimum for 25.5) stack length is like taking about 3/4 of turn off. The resistance will be approx. 1 milliohm less per pole.

ROAR does have a good rule set in place for 25.5 motors, a 2 pole resistance is also called out.
Ok thanks for the information.. That makes sense to me now.
Looks like I should start looking at some of the different power options out there.
Thanks again.
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Old 06-01-2016, 03:33 PM
  #12209  
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ahhh-the good ole days--
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Old 06-02-2016, 09:57 AM
  #12210  
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Originally Posted by AlexPate
It just means we have to keep building the class to the point where we can introduce mod f1!!
Agree!
25.5 is fine for a 60' straight

Our tracks have 170' and 270' straight, F1 would die an instant death if we went 25.5. People already complain it should be 17.5

21.5 is a perfect balance with alot of ROAR approved motors to choose from for equality
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