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Old 10-13-2015, 11:52 AM   #11431
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Originally Posted by JayL View Post
1s 13.5 is a much better answer than outlaw 25.5

custom winding up some 25.5 now, since I have no rules to pass other than it be 25.5
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Old 10-13-2015, 02:15 PM   #11432
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As you have pointed out and many have eluded to, it really depends on the track as to how much of a difference there will be between the 21.5 and the 25.5 times and hence weather the 25.5 rule would work.

When it comes down to it we (Meaning track owners/ organizers) don't all have to follow ROAR rules when we stage a race!
As long as the rules for that track or meeting are clearly pointed out before the race then we as drivers make the decision as to attend or not and to prepare our car accordingly.
We should have confidence in the track organizers that they will adjust the motor/ rules to suit what they believe to be best suited to their track.

Ok. When it's a sanctioned ROAR event then we have to go by their terms and regulations.
Other then those races, we can organize the races as we see fit.

It does not have to be a blanket ruling for every race and every meat!

At least, that's what I think.

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In this case, you'll be pleased to know that since ROAR rules are from about 1998, and meant for the old 90's style cars with 27t motors, you can do whatever you wish. This is not anything decided by ROAR.
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Old 10-13-2015, 06:44 PM   #11433
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In this case, you'll be pleased to know that since ROAR rules are from about 1998, and meant for the old 90's style cars with 27t motors, you can do whatever you wish. This is not anything decided by ROAR.
Thanks Rob.

I guess thats what I was really saying in a nut-shell

Hey Rob. Will you be trying to make the race up at Oshkosh on the 7th November?
It's one I know I can get to .... well at least I have the day free!??? It's a little further then The Harbor 4hrs compared to 3.5hres to The Harbor.

http://www.rctech.net/forum/wisconsi...tationals.html

A of traveling in one day but we do what we have to do to go racing don;t we?!

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Old 10-13-2015, 10:12 PM   #11434
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Slowing the cars down so that the best battery / motor wins instead of the best driver is not the answer. F1 is already slower than the all other pan car classes and stock & mod sedan, it doesnt need to be the slowest class of all.
..agreed..if you want slow go run VTA. 1S will just have guys gearing taller which pulls more average amps.....best battery/motor wins...lets keep it a driver class..
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Old 10-13-2015, 11:55 PM   #11435
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The nice thing about 1 cell is the instant torque to the motor will be less so the rear end will be less prone to breaking loose on some surfaces. On our track rubber tires were often very Jeckel and Hyde...very unpredictable at times.
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Old 10-14-2015, 08:46 AM   #11436
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..agreed..if you want slow go run VTA. 1S will just have guys gearing taller which pulls more average amps.....best battery/motor wins...lets keep it a driver class..
That's why you allow both to run together. In theory if a 2S car can put down all of its power, it wins. On rubber tires, you only have so much grip.

I run lower timing (around 35 to 40 actual degrees) in my motors, gear to top end for 1/2 to 2/3 of longest straight, test, temp and leave it be. My cars are quick. The motor barely gets hot for my six 21.5s or my one 13.5 F1 cars. Too many people do this backwards and time the snot out of their motor first, then try to gear to the track: which only generates heat, and drops low end torque. Revs don't matter if your motor never uses them.
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:28 AM   #11437
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That's why you allow both to run together. In theory if a 2S car can put down all of its power, it wins. On rubber tires, you only have so much grip.

I run lower timing (around 35 to 40 actual degrees) in my motors, gear to top end for 1/2 to 2/3 of longest straight, test, temp and leave it be. My cars are quick. The motor barely gets hot for my six 21.5s or my one 13.5 F1 cars. Too many people do this backwards and time the snot out of their motor first, then try to gear to the track: which only generates heat, and drops low end torque. Revs don't matter if your motor never uses them.
I agree, let them run together and let the racers choose which power system they prefer. BUT, make them all weigh the same. Otherwise you give the 1S cars an advantage in the corners and higher exit speeds.

It'll make them race better together.

Mark
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Old 10-14-2015, 10:44 AM   #11438
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I agree, let them run together and let the racers choose which power system they prefer. BUT, make them all weigh the same. Otherwise you give the 1S cars an advantage in the corners and higher exit speeds.

It'll make them race better together.

Mark
I can try that.
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Old 10-14-2015, 03:30 PM   #11439
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I agree, let them run together and let the racers choose which power system they prefer. BUT, make them all weigh the same. Otherwise you give the 1S cars an advantage in the corners and higher exit speeds.

It'll make them race better together.
In the UK we run both 1S 13.5 and 2S 21.5 together. Because we actually run test sessions with a range of abilities to get actual information to base any decisions on before we create our rules, we run 1S at 950grams and 2S at 1050grams as that gives the most equal performance between the two classes.
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Old 10-14-2015, 04:38 PM   #11440
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Default 21.5 vs 25.5

My biggest issue with motors is the performance level that some manufacturers are getting out of 21.5's and I think that is why some are looking at going to 25.5 to bring F1 back to where they envisaged it.

At a recent event I attended (and I am comparing touring cars as they were the only classes running multiple levels of motors) the fastest 21.5 cars would've sat in the middle of the A main in the 13.5 class. Now IMO that is simply too fast but that's not the debate - but strap those same motors into a lightweight F1 car on a lowish-grip track (and lets face it, most outdoor tracks have to be considered low grip these days) and I can see why some people see an issue there and want to find a way to bring the cars back to the performance they envisage an F1 class having and where it fits into their club class structure etc.

The ultimate issue is there will always be people who want to go faster and people who don't and they are never gonna agree
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Old 10-14-2015, 05:07 PM   #11441
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My biggest issue with motors is the performance level that some manufacturers are getting out of 21.5's and I think that is why some are looking at going to 25.5 to bring F1 back to where they envisaged it.

At a recent event I attended (and I am comparing touring cars as they were the only classes running multiple levels of motors) the fastest 21.5 cars would've sat in the middle of the A main in the 13.5 class. Now IMO that is simply too fast but that's not the debate - but strap those same motors into a lightweight F1 car on a lowish-grip track (and lets face it, most outdoor tracks have to be considered low grip these days) and I can see why some people see an issue there and want to find a way to bring the cars back to the performance they envisage an F1 class having and where it fits into their club class structure etc.

The ultimate issue is there will always be people who want to go faster and people who don't and they are never gonna agree
Excellent points here!
This is why I'm guessing that some are saying simply having a new motor rule will not work.
It's interesting to me that some forget that they as drivers are in control (or meant to be ) of their car's.
If a car spins out because the power of the motor/ battery was way too much for the grip available, you need to not place as much throttle on surely?!
I know thats easier said then done but thats where the skill comes in isn't it??
I know F1 had this problem a few years back before the restrictions where a manufacturer was able to get prity much 1600 BHP from their car. They could not put all that power down either.

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Old 10-14-2015, 06:53 PM   #11442
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Originally Posted by terry.sc View Post
In the UK we run both 1S 13.5 and 2S 21.5 together. Because we actually run test sessions with a range of abilities to get actual information to base any decisions on before we create our rules, we run 1S at 950grams and 2S at 1050grams as that gives the most equal performance between the two classes.
Thanks for the input. It would seem to me that the 1S cars would be faster in the corners because of less weight. Is this the case? And are there tracks where 1S is better and vice versa?

Mark
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:12 PM   #11443
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Originally Posted by British Menace View Post
Excellent points here!
This is why I'm guessing that some are saying simply having a new motor rule will not work.
It's interesting to me that some forget that they as drivers are in control (or meant to be ) of their car's.
If a car spins out because the power of the motor/ battery was way too much for the grip available, you need to not place as much throttle on surely?!
I know thats easier said then done but thats where the skill comes in isn't it??
I know F1 had this problem a few years back before the restrictions where a manufacturer was able to get prity much 1600 BHP from their car. They could not put all that power down either.

Regards
BM
Thank you for mentioning its the guy behind the radio and not the motor in the car....... your finger is in the driver seat here guys.... if you can't compete with a 17.5 or 21.5 why do you think a 25.5 would help you.
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Old 10-14-2015, 07:16 PM   #11444
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21.5, 25.5, 13.5, 1s, 2s....bah...I'm still rocking:



and



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Old 10-14-2015, 07:22 PM   #11445
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21.5, 25.5, 13.5, 1s, 2s....bah...I'm still rocking:



and



Isb.t that the 540 "Silver Can?"

$16 run till it drops then renew..... I knew there was a reason I still run this motor Haha...

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