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Old 10-19-2008, 12:37 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
A standard AMB transponder won't work well on single cell LiPo. Novak does make a booster for the transponder (about $10 in parts can build one).

Some of the guys testing single cell are saying that the steering can get a little goofy on the straight without a receiver pack but I've never run without one to confirm.

I do like the fact that all you have to do is simply run a single cell (and maybe a receiver pack) and you're done. Nothing else to buy or modify.
I didn't notice anything goofy about the steering down the straight. Next time I am at the track I will pay careful attention to it though. I don't have any amb's or I would have tested them.
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Old 10-19-2008, 04:52 PM   #92
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That's very interesting news. Keep us posted.
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Old 10-19-2008, 05:44 PM   #93
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Future is looking bright for winter, since I have started getting requests for more 1/12th scale paint!

Just finished up early this week.


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Old 10-19-2008, 07:47 PM   #94
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That's very interesting news. Keep us posted.
I went back and read and the post I saw reporting about servo oddities under full throttle was Donny Lia. So its definitely a reliable source. It may have been such a subtlety that in the giddiness of running 1 cell with no receiver pack or other changes I didn't notice it. If I am not mistaken, I think his concern, and reason for running a receiver pack, was the steering was "sluggish" at the end of the straight.

Another point I'll mention is that there are a multitude of options in configuring a 1 cell lipo to fit either a link or t-bar car. So even if SMC or others don't develop a hard case right away, for club racing, the possibility exists to run lipo in a t-bar car successfully right now.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:18 AM   #95
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Sounds interesting, I've been playing with a 2s2p A-123 (18650) in my L4 but I haven't had a chance to really run it to see what I get for run time and power. I did lose 50 grams going from 4 NIMH 3300mah to 2s2p a-123, I run only A-123's in all my electric toys in the 1100mah and 2300mah flavor and I love them........BB
Update,
I had a chance to run the car on my buddys basement carpet track and it was very nice. The car seemed to handle the same as it does with the NIMH pack but with more speed and power, I droped 9 teeth off the pinion to keep temps in check. Run time was a shade over 9 minutes at race pace and motor temps were in the 180 range. I ran with two racing buddys one running a FF-07/trinity 17.5 duo/ 4 4200nimh cells,I had a shade more top speed but the torque of that trinity motor is amazing it rips out of the corner. His motor was in the 200 range at the end of his runs. The other car is a hot bodies/ stock brushed/ 4 3300nimh, my car was a fair amount quicker and faster with roughly 1 1/2 minutes more run time. One thing that is great is the charge time, 9 minutes to discharge it in the car and 17 minutes to charge it. I was able to recharge and run for another 9 minutes and charge again and then wait for them to finish there first recharge. Gotta love the 123's.........Brad
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:17 AM   #96
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Great topic, I really would like to see a change to rekindle interest in this dead class. Have a couple of cars on the shelf and like the idea of reworking the class formulations. Keeping everything the same means no change in the participation and interest in 12th scale racing.

Stock Club Racing: Mabuchi motors, 2s Lipo, lower weight restriction
Stock Nationals Classes: Handout Mabuchi motors lower weight restriction
Mod: 380 (or Mamba etc sized), 2s Lipo lower weight restriction (Rocket speeds to showcase the class)

With Touring cars, many of the fast racers are running 5 cell. Too much speed is not always as much of an issue as one would think. In the end 1/12th scale is a serious driver class for rocket speeds, longer race times, equipment simplicity, and relatively low cost. If you want anything else, go buy a touring car.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:41 AM   #97
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Great topic, I really would like to see a change to rekindle interest in this dead class.
This class is far from dead. With 58 entries in 17.5 at Vegas this year, it was the most popular class with 13.5 rubber sedan in a close second at 57 entries. At our local track it is one of the more popular classes to run.
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Old 10-20-2008, 01:13 PM   #98
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12th Racing is also far from dead in my area. It is also one of the most popular classes, along with rubber touring and vintage T/A.

I have tried running a 2S lipo in my 1/12 a few times. It is MUCH faster than a 4 cell nimh, but very fun as well. When I was trying it out a while back, all I had was a lipo for my 18T which is a 1320mah 2s. With the 27t brushed motor it was comparable to a slow mod motor, and good bit faster than 19t. I plan to get an aprox 2000mah 2s and try again with a few diff brushless motors.
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Old 10-20-2008, 02:06 PM   #99
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Dead? Hardly. There have never been so many chassis manufacturers, etc making excellent quality competitive chassis. And plenty of folks are buyin' 'em too. We just had our first race of our 2008-2009 season this past weekend and the second largest class was 1/12 Stock. The largest class was Vintage TA.

Touring Car, particularly Touring Car foam, is what you ought to be shoveling dirt over now.
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:25 PM   #100
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Dead Class?? You HAVE to be JOKING yeah??!
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Old 10-20-2008, 04:52 PM   #101
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Dead? Hardly. There have never been so many chassis manufacturers, etc making excellent quality competitive chassis. And plenty of folks are buyin' 'em too. We just had our first race of our 2008-2009 season this past weekend and the second largest class was 1/12 Stock. The largest class was Vintage TA.

Touring Car, particularly Touring Car foam, is what you ought to be shoveling dirt over now.
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12th Racing is also far from dead in my area. It is also one of the most popular classes, along with rubber touring and vintage T/A.

I have tried running a 2S lipo in my 1/12 a few times. It is MUCH faster than a 4 cell nimh, but very fun as well. When I was trying it out a while back, all I had was a lipo for my 18T which is a 1320mah 2s. With the 27t brushed motor it was comparable to a slow mod motor, and good bit faster than 19t. I plan to get an aprox 2000mah 2s and try again with a few diff brushless motors.
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This class is far from dead. With 58 entries in 17.5 at Vegas this year, it was the most popular class with 13.5 rubber sedan in a close second at 57 entries. At our local track it is one of the more popular classes to run.
I guess it all depends on where you race.

In Long Island, NY where I race, like I stated in my first post, we used to have 30 people or more racing 1/12 every week. Now we have only 5~7 guys left. Last week, the local track, http://www.360rcspeedway.com/, had a trophy race. There were 24 entries for rubber 17.5T class, 30 entries for foam 13.5 class and only 8 entries for 1/12 scale, of course, they all made the A-Main. Thatís why I said, IMO, itís not a meaningful race like it used to be based on whatís happening here. A racing buddy of mine told me that he had a conversation with someone from CT, that person said that he was at RCMadness a couple of weeks ago, and it had only 4 people racing 1/12 scale.

Yesterday, only 3 guys registered to race 1/12 scale. So Donny, the track owner, asked me and Dave, the manager, along with himself to join in to make it more like a race. Beside that, there was a bone chassis sitting on a pit table with a for sale sign. Itís sad.
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Old 10-20-2008, 06:42 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmay70 View Post
This class is far from dead. With 58 entries in 17.5 at Vegas this year, it was the most popular class with 13.5 rubber sedan in a close second at 57 entries. At our local track it is one of the more popular classes to run.
Well if you go by entires...Sedan is kocking tires off 1:12 for cars in the mains.

Sedans
17.5 Rubber Amature 41
13.5 Rubber 48
13.5 Foam 34
10.5 Foam 15
Mod Foam 19
Mod Rubber 20

Total Sedans 177 entries

All Pan Cars
17.5 1:12, 50
Mod 1/12 23
13.5 GT 30

Total PanCars 103 entries

I am not am not sure if 50 entries as the limit for each class and if 13.5 1:12 would have increased the number of entries. As you can see, 1:12 does field more racers per class compared to sedan. Maybe adding 13.5 1:12 would add 35 more entries. And by the looks of it, 10.5 can just be dropped since it will be dropped by ROAR.

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Old 10-20-2008, 08:34 PM   #103
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It sucks that 12th is dropping off in some areas. Sedan is on the way out in others so it's not like losing racers is anything new.

Want to see what to do with 12th in the future? Try looking at what we've changed in the past. Let's see... We went from 6 cell to 4 cell because the batteries were making the cars go too fast. It worked about 20 years ago...

I just don't understand bumping the voltage back up to where it was before. Back when it didn't work and we had to change to keep the class alive.

so, back to the first post:

You're telling us that 2 cell is faster and that a step back to a higher voltage that didn't work 20 years ago is magically going to work now. The cars are too fast as is let alone with more voltage.

You're trying to tell us that adapting some crappy motor new speedo, and battery in my car is in some way more simple than just buying a LiPo and a receiver pack or voltage booster. I'm still not buying it...

And finally you're trying to tell me that a motor, speedo, AND battery is some how magically going to be cheaper than just a LiPo and a receiver pack or voltage booster.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:49 PM   #104
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hey Fred did you get my PM yester day??? Chad
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:09 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_B View Post
It sucks that 12th is dropping off in some areas. Sedan is on the way out in others so it's not like losing racers is anything new.

Want to see what to do with 12th in the future? Try looking at what we've changed in the past. Let's see... We went from 6 cell to 4 cell because the batteries were making the cars go too fast. It worked about 20 years ago...

I just don't understand bumping the voltage back up to where it was before. Back when it didn't work and we had to change to keep the class alive.

so, back to the first post:

You're telling us that 2 cell is faster and that a step back to a higher voltage that didn't work 20 years ago is magically going to work now. The cars are too fast as is let alone with more voltage.

You're trying to tell us that adapting some crappy motor new speedo, and battery in my car is in some way more simple than just buying a LiPo and a receiver pack or voltage booster. I'm still not buying it...

And finally you're trying to tell me that a motor, speedo, AND battery is some how magically going to be cheaper than just a LiPo and a receiver pack or voltage booster.
Yeah that is why I am leaning 3.7V LiPO as possible change compared to NO-CHANGE. Going higher in voltage shouldn't even be an option with the known facts.

My View

NO-Change, 1:12 continues on and maybe gets more racers due to Sedan racers converting to 1:10 GT cars. 1:12 could loose racers due to not being LiPO friendly, stock speeds being a little too fast or the stigma that 1:12 is for Die-Hards only. Racers stick with 1:12 as a secuirty blanket since, heck change hardly happens in 1:12 racing.

3.7V Change, 1:12 takes advantage of LiPO Appeal yet allows 3-Cell NiMH racers to run too. Sedan racers pick 1:12 as a second or primary class instead of GT or RTR Toys. Stock Speeds are slightly slower and easier to learn on. 1:12 could lose racers as some are set in their ways and making a change to the rules would rip their security blanket.
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