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Old 11-24-2008, 03:05 AM   #451
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Well after testing my new 380 brushless setup with lipo 7.4v cells i have come to a decision that it would not be the way forward for the 12scale, it was a great idea but just not practicle to implement.

Pro's
Minimum tyre wear
Less breakage due to light weight car (not that i hit anything)
ermmm thats it

Con's
New cells
new motor
new esc
new tyres (softer tyres)
new charger/balancer
less controllable (grip roll for the first time ever)
new setup

This all takes time and money which most drivers don't have.

After speaking to a few guys at the track they are all convinced that eventually we will go to 3.7v lipo, but not for a couple of years until they can get the run time in mod out of these packs which i am sure will not happen for a least two years and by then who knows we might even have a practicle option with the A123 cells.

Steve
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Old 11-24-2008, 05:49 AM   #452
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We made runtime on 2000 mAh cells back in the day with less efficient motors. We can do it again, it would start a little bit of a battery war in mod. A runtime war in mod might actually benefit the stock and superstock classes because it would push the battery development along.

I still think single cell is the way to go and it's starting to look like it will catch on. Several things will need to happen before it can become a ROAR/IFMAR change but it's a start.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:51 AM   #453
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YOU TELL 'EM FRED!!!
And we can always decrease the weight!
Seems to me limited mass = less broken cars .. no matter what..
no punn intended...
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:47 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bs6ef View Post
Well after testing my new 380 brushless setup with lipo 7.4v cells i have come to a decision that it would not be the way forward for the 12scale, it was a great idea but just not practicle to implement.

Pro's
Minimum tyre wear
Less breakage due to light weight car (not that i hit anything)
ermmm thats it

Con's
New cells
new motor
new esc
new tyres (softer tyres)
new charger/balancer
less controllable (grip roll for the first time ever)
new setup

This all takes time and money which most drivers don't have.

After speaking to a few guys at the track they are all convinced that eventually we will go to 3.7v lipo, but not for a couple of years until they can get the run time in mod out of these packs which i am sure will not happen for a least two years and by then who knows we might even have a practicle option with the A123 cells.

Steve
Steve:

I'm very disappointed at your results, for some one who followed this thread as much as you did. But Iím not surprised you would fail in your trial. You fail because you made the same mistake others have made. Iíve said it many times itís not the 380size motor to be used with the 2-cell set up. Please read my post #41, it should explain everything.

The following is my original post # 41:

To trailranger, Fred B:
By reading your posts, here and at the other threads, I understand you, trailranger, Fred B, along with others, are for single cell set up, and you're against 2-cell lipo set up. Would you be open mind enough to reconsider your position if I can point out where you are wrong? Is it possible that you could be wrong for once, right?

Your statements/arguments are wrong because your information was wrong, or you read my post wrong, to begin with. You've mistaken Momba motor for Mongoose 380 size motor.

We can tell the different motor by saying it's a 380 size, 540, 550...etc.
We can also describe them by their actual dimension, like 2030 meaning the motor is 20mm in diameter and 30 mm in length. A MOMBA motor is a 2030
motor. I don't have Mongoose motor, but I have two 380 motors I used to use them in my micro RS4, one is 2430 and the other is 2632. It looks to me a Mongoose is around 2635. These are all fall into 380size category.

Click this:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...hless_Inrunner
It's a 2435 motor, look at the maximum amp load, 25A.

Look at this:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...hless_Inrunner
It's a 2445 motor, 10 mm longer, and its maximum load is 34A

I guess the Mongoose fall in-between those two motor.

Check this motor out:
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...ess_Motor_(FIN)

This is a 4200kv on my Bloody Knife. Its maximum load is only 10A.


This motor and the 5400kv Momba that I have on my Diggity are capable of the same pace of Donny's IIC A-main Stock winning set up. In fact, my Diggity, geared at 16 in pinion and 88 in spur with a 1.72" tires, was only one second behind Donny at the end of the qualifier.
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Old 11-24-2008, 02:59 PM   #455
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Ok.. here in lies the problem..
I dont want to(nor do many others) have to get all new stuff to run in 12th.
obviously you had to have been tons lighter and well.. no matter how well you did against your buddy .. was he dialed ? were you ? lets just run what makes sence for now .. conventional brushless motors. 540... and 1 cell .. thing is what do we do about the weight. obvously the needs to be some thing done about it . but i think id rather just strap a stick of lead on rather than getting new motors, speedos & all that instead of just a lipo.
cause if thats not the case we are all doomed to racing "taxi cabs".
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:49 PM   #456
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[QUOTE=John St.Amant;5087931]Ok.. lets just run what makes sence for now .. conventional brushless motors. 540... and 1 cell .. [QUOTE]


With everything else being the same, yours, so called conventional, set up:
$150.00 for ESC
$75.00 for motor
$50.00 for battery
$25.00 for receiver pack, or even more for the voltage regulator that Novak will be
making

The set up Iíve recommend:
$20.00 for the motor
$25.00 for the battery
$50.00 for the ESC

The total savings is $205.00
You tell me saving $205.00 does not make sense to you?

For argumentís sake, unless there is a hot chic in a store, otherwise you donít KNOWINGLY pay more for anything at that store. If you do, you know your friends get to call you an IDIOT!

Itís a simple math even a caveman can understand.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:57 PM   #457
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[QUOTE=Roland S;5090080][QUOTE=John St.Amant;5087931]Ok.. lets just run what makes sence for now .. conventional brushless motors. 540... and 1 cell ..
Quote:


With everything else being the same, yours, so called conventional, set up:
$150.00 for ESC
$75.00 for motor
$50.00 for battery
$25.00 for receiver pack, or even more for the voltage regulator that Novak will be
making

The set up Iíve recommend:
$20.00 for the motor
$25.00 for the battery
$50.00 for the ESC

The total savings is $205.00
You tell me saving $205.00 does not make sense to you?

For argumentís sake, unless there is a hot chic in a store, otherwise you donít KNOWINGLY pay more for anything at that store. If you do, you know your friends get to call you an IDIOT!

Itís a simple math even a caveman can understand.
what you dont seem to understand is I already have all that other stuff. and none of the stuff u listed below it. but for some reason i want a yellow bikini.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:57 AM   #458
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I hate that argument, "I already have that stuff". It doesn't matter, you paid for it at some point, so it still counts.
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Old 11-25-2008, 06:21 AM   #459
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oh i c , its ok for you to tell me to lose my ass on something I have and just go get more stuff to lose my ass on. must be nice having so much disposible income. But apparently u run nitro and are firmiliar with burning money. great rebuttle. geez
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:03 AM   #460
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Cant we just get along ?!?!?!

Jeez.

DK
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:34 AM   #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland S View Post
To trailranger, Fred B:
By reading your posts, here and at the other threads, I understand you, trailranger, Fred B, along with others, are for single cell set up, and you're against 2-cell lipo set up. Would you be open mind enough to reconsider your position if I can point out where you are wrong? Is it possible that you could be wrong for once, right?
Roland, the problem that I have is the fact that YOU are the one that isn't open minded on this whole deal. Anyone that doesn't agree with you isn't being "open minded" and they are "wrong". You've thrown those two backhanded remarks my way often enough that I pretty much dismiss anything new that you have to say. It's a constant childlike "am to", "am not" type of argument that's tedious at best

Fact is that I've tried both single cell and 2 cell a long time ago. I found out over a year ago that single cell had good runtime and could use my existing equipment with a receiver pack. I could list out the point again but to be honest, it's not worth the time as you're not "open minded" enough to listen.

So, on the 2 cell thing. Go for it. You feel that your way is the only way so prove it. Get a major battery manufacturer to build and tool a hardcase 2 cell LiPo. Then get a major 12th manufacturer to make a pod that works with whatever motors you choose for stock, superstock, and modified. After that's all done, you can try convincing all of the sanctioning bodies that they need to have new motors approved for the class. You'll need to come up with specific motor rules for winds and controls that limit power. Good luck with all that.

All of us that think that single cell is the way to go will be out racing at the local track with the same motors, and cars that we used at the last big race.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:39 AM   #462
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Guys Let it go!!!!! This thread is supposed to be informational.
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:00 AM   #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RC8 View Post
I hate that argument, "I already have that stuff". It doesn't matter, you paid for it at some point, so it still counts.
In real world economics, sunk cost should not affect future decisions.

Thus if you already own a 1/10 scale brushless setup, you can not compare the cost of your setup to the cost of switching to the setup RolandS suggests. You can only compare the additional required materials needed to prevent obsolesces of the equipment.

Anyone who paid attention in economics during college would understand that SUNK cost should not be part of the decision process. SUNK cost are non recoverable cost no matter the future decision.

3.7V LiPO cost
RX Battery or Booster BEC Module $25
Battery $55

7.4V Micro Motor Cost
Brushless System $125
Battery $40
Motor Adapter $8
Battery Mounting Hardware $10
New Car designed for Micro Systems $250
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Old 11-25-2008, 11:38 AM   #464
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After all this istill have to say that ROAR or whomever will just step in and slow it all down some more! Brushed motoes are banned at most places. Theres a deffinate advantage to them over a 17.5 or no one would still be using them. Seems to me Fred , that when ever any one have an objective perspective on anything, weather its about motor size, battery configuration, or if a missing screw makes the car work better. there will always be some rebuttle. Next thing is some bloke will tell me the sorrect way to spell a word or correct my punctuation in an effort to make me look stupid. Fact of the matter is.... I'm made of rubber and they are made of glue. So on so forth. I dont care much for the "childish" crap or the banter. But it seems to be a part of typing on forums no matter where you go. I also believe that any one , especially me! lol cant express my findings with out some foreigner telling me how ignorant I am . Hell I even biult a Shock dyno out of tecnic legos and an amp meter just to prove a point to myself. That what most call one thing is not what they are calling it but something else. A pro racer came on and said i was incorrect but then he CLEARLY stated that their method was flawed. So in a way i was right.
You call it corn.. we call it mayze. just wasnt what he had said at all but in fact the opposite. chances are im going to mostly missunderstood anyways . But 1 cell is the way to go.. and as for my humble opinion... stick with 17.5 and make it a real drivers race! not a speed issue. Hell I watched 4 formittible opponents race at CEFX and couldnt keep their cars together for 5 mins let alone 8. And the fella that one , drove the slowest car on the track. Speed makes it costly and frustrating. Lets put the FUN back in RACING.
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Old 11-25-2008, 01:40 PM   #465
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I haven't read every post in here, but what I am getting from what I did read is that some people believe that 1cell Lipo is the future of 12th scale. Here are the problems I see: 1st= there are T-bar cars currently being made and they require a saddle pack. What that means is if U have one of these cars U have to buy a new one. That just raised expense for some people, like me who is running a Corally SP12X to try to sell it which won't be easy because who ever buys it couldn't use it either, or I shelf it forever and then spend $200+ on a new kit just so I can still race.

The second problem comes if 1c lipo replaces 4cell. there wouldn't be much need for battery matchers. 2c lipos are already hurting some matchers and a couple already closed shop. So if 4cell is replaced not only do long time supporters have to buy all new stuff, but the Matchers have to close and alot of people have to find new jobs.

If single cell Lipo's can't be implemented into RC like 2 cell was. Why make it.

And If your answer is cost and/ or it's easier to maintain, Please tell me 1= which form of racing doen't cost money. Which is easy to maintain. And who started racing as a hobby because it's cheap.
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