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Old 11-05-2008, 08:45 AM   #271
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That remains to be seen....
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:49 AM   #272
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I would be very interested in seeing this voltage booster .. if it silison based .. it will most likely fail under load .. (let the magic smoke out) and if it a step up transformer .. it will be cumbersome and where r u gonna put that in an alreadt cramped 12th chassis. Op amps are not reliable , tend to over heat and .. usually explode if not working properly. not a big explosion but more like that of a cap gun. never the less... it will get your attention. I also hope its not integrated into the speedo as i have just purchased a GTB. One of these days im gonna run that damn 12r5..
The voltage booster that they talk about here is not for the motor, but to avoid running a receiver pack.
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Old 11-05-2008, 08:57 AM   #273
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DUH! We have been talking about reciever packs for what .. 3 pages now?
I happen to have a BSEE .... if you would like me to spell it out for you , let me know.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:07 AM   #274
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DUH! We have been talking about reciever packs for what .. 3 pages now?
I happen to have a BSEE .... if you would like me to spell it out for you , let me know.
You think that a servo and receiver will out draw a simple voltage booster mister EE?
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:15 AM   #275
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My 10R5 uses about 20mAh per 5 min heat. So under normal circumstances, No. But that all depends on load requirements durring stressed situations (durring a collision) and the watts rating of the voltage booster circuit. And even then most electrinics will fail within the first hour or opperation. Once that threshold has been met.... it should be good . Or untill someone plugs it in backwards. Anythings possible. That can be a good thing , or a bad thing. Think about it. I never thought I would have seen a reciever melt down, but I did.
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:47 AM   #276
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Most of us are smart enough to throw a piece of strapping tape over the extra switch so that it doesn't get turned on by mistake (or a turnmarshall). It's a non issue for anyone that has an IQ above room temperature.

Also, it's not a big deal to charge a receiver pack. It's not like we haven't run them before and it's not hard to do. A simple voltage converter is probably going to be the way to go and that won't require any charging. Once we have a booster that works the extra pack argument will be gone for good.

The future of 12th will involve slow change. Not just because the class isn't really broken but because it's a worldwide class. Whatever we do, it must work with both carpet and asphalt. Any changes need to fit into the worldwide rules and not just our little American rules.

Baby steps will change 12th over time but a complete tearup of the rules will completely split up the class worldwide. As soon as we tell Europe and Japan to completely change 12th they're going to tell us to go piss up a rope.
I can assure you I have a much higher IQ then that. But my point still stands...if you put tape around it that will reduce the chances of a problem but not eliminate it. As for charging yes it is simple but it is one more thing to charge which as a race director I often don't have the time to do. I'd rather keep things as simple as they are now.

Personally I'd rather see 2 cell packs with a sealed and tamper proof voltage regulator that has to be approved by the sanctioning bodies.
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:47 PM   #277
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It would be impossible to get everones voltage regulatore exactly the same .. and by whos meter are you going to establish what setting ? I dont intend to insult anyone or piss ppl off. just that i have lots of time to think about it .
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Old 11-05-2008, 12:51 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by InspGadgt View Post
Personally I'd rather see 2 cell packs with a sealed and tamper proof voltage regulator that has to be approved by the sanctioning bodies.
Harringbone! Ahh yes, tamper proof won't last.


As for the slide switches. A heat shrink band over the ON posistion of the ESC swtich or the little or tape works well to keep the switch from being turned on.
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Old 11-05-2008, 01:26 PM   #279
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[QUOTE=trailranger;5013459]
Roland, Why didn't you try a smaller motor and has a 1/8" shaft.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...nner_(Eq:_2204)

Several of the 22 and 28 series outrunners have 1/8 Shafts (AXi, Orion, Turnigy) Plus the the chance of cogging will be less and the rollout will be easier to find since the pinions selection will be wider and rollout change will be less per each 1T change.

QUOTE]

Trailranger:

I happened to start my experiment with a Momba. I was also able to figure out how to use a regular pinion by adding a piece of 1/8" tubing in-between them. So, when I was looking for motors of different power; my focus was on the inrunner 2030 or 2040 motor. In all honesty, I didn't think I can mount that motor, now I do. I 'll try some of them soon, gee, this experiment is getting expensive.

Do you know what speed can we get out of this motor?
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:00 PM   #280
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Harringbone! Ahh yes, tamper proof won't last.
That is possible...but there are ways to reduce the chances of it happening. If ROAR mandates they be encased in epoxy and have no external programming interfaces then have a ROAR label encased in the epoxy like the label epoxied on the winds of stock motors. Any physical tampering would be evident and software tampering would be next to impossible with only power in and power out leads. It would make for even less of a change for the class. I've been hearing there are allready places allowing 2 cell LiPo but madate they have to discharge the battery down to a 4 cell equivalent voltage. Cars are tech'd before racing to ensure correct voltage. Using a voltage regulator would be more of an extension of that. Heck instead of having it in-line between the battery and ESC it could be built into the battery pack and then the pack would have to be ROAR approved.
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:44 PM   #281
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I must be missing something. . .
a 4 cell voltage ranges from 3.6 volts fully discharged to about 6.0 fully charged; 6.2 max (right?).

The proper cut-off for a 2 cell lipo is 6 volts.

How are they discharging the lipo from 8.4 down to 6.2 (at best) and still having runtime?
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Old 11-05-2008, 02:57 PM   #282
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Beats me...I haven't seen it myself...only heard about it from a sponsored driver I know.
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Old 11-05-2008, 03:24 PM   #283
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[QUOTE=Roland S;5018847]
Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
Roland, Why didn't you try a smaller motor and has a 1/8" shaft.
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...nner_(Eq:_2204)

Several of the 22 and 28 series outrunners have 1/8 Shafts (AXi, Orion, Turnigy) Plus the the chance of cogging will be less and the rollout will be easier to find since the pinions selection will be wider and rollout change will be less per each 1T change.

QUOTE]

Trailranger:

I happened to start my experiment with a Momba. I was also able to figure out how to use a regular pinion by adding a piece of 1/8" tubing in-between them. So, when I was looking for motors of different power; my focus was on the inrunner 2030 or 2040 motor. In all honesty, I didn't think I can mount that motor, now I do. I 'll try some of them soon, gee, this experiment is getting expensive.

Do you know what speed can we get out of this motor?
It is hard to say what speeds without doing some test and that means buying some cheap 2S lipos which I do not want to do since I am in favor or the 1S solution.

The only reason why I was expierimenting with these smaller outrunners was for my solar r/c car. The car needed a more efficient motor for the lower amp draw of 2~3A.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Buil...Powered_RC_car
Page 4 has some videos showing the Speed with just 25watts of power

At 2.5A 8.0V the motor will keep the 1000g car at moving at 31kh. Motor was geared to about 60mm. So just guessing if the motor was pulling near the 5A max constant the roll out would be clooser to 70mm and top speed closer to 40kH for long straights. I was using 1/10 scale capped tires so I would assume foam and 1/12 tires will reduce the total speed but pick up accelleration.

The reason why I picked the outrunner was that my 2100kv inrunner was cogging due to the lower current and voltage needed to create a strong feedback for the controller. The Outrunner with 12 poles was effectively a motor with a built in 4:1 gearbox for a 4400kv motor. This eliminated the need for a gearbox and alllowed me to still use the direct drive axle on pan cars.

My Orion Breeze 1100KV Motor
http://www.teamorion-avionics.com/Br...+Motors/Breeze
Again using the included CrossPlate, these style motor will bolt to a 1:12 motor pod.

The Gust Motor Seres could be better suited with three choices
1100KV, 1380KV and 1820KV. from my experimentation, finding an Inrunner that will not be too powerfull and create cogging issues would be hard. The outrunners with the 1/8 shaft, direct bolt to pod, and a pesudo Higher KV but lower RPM made a good choice for my application where I was looking for a lower powered motor besides the Mambas.
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Old 11-05-2008, 05:17 PM   #284
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I'm giving you one reason why you are in no loss to try them. I'm sure you can afford the $20 battery. So go ahead and order them, If you decide the 2-cell is not for you, you can assemble them into a 4800mah single cell practice pack. What a brilliant idea.
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Old 11-05-2008, 07:20 PM   #285
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I already know how the motor will roughly do with a LiPO and I do not want to buy another battery pack.

During my testing phase of my solar car, I used a yeah racing 7.4V 3200 pack.

I didn't have the motor gear higher than 60mm becuase I was tuning the motor load to 3A max at speed. Those outrunners can pull about 12amps for a few seconds but for 8min, I would stick to 5~6amp average
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