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Old 10-22-2008, 09:42 AM   #136
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I haven't yet seen the panasonic cell, but have heard that it's in development, and would offer us, at least, a voltage parity.

12th scale is dying where you are, yet if you speak with 12th scale manufacturers, and look at other regions you'll see that 12th scale is certainly on the upswing nationally, and even worldwide, and the growth of the class is going on in spite of the fact that you can't strap a Lipo in a car legally. Look how many 12th scale cars are currently on the market. If the class were dead do you honestly think a company like HPI would have released a 12th scale chassis?

Oddly in my region dirt turnouts are down, TC is slowing, and 12th scale is growing. The class couldn't be further from dying, and I'm sorry that your local racers aren't supporting it.

I've used LIPO in 18th scale racing for years. The only reason we chose to use them over Nimh's was the size constraints in the 18th scale X-ray cars. I don't really find them to be any more convenient than Nimh's personally, and they're certainly easier to destroy.

I honestly believe that most of the guys who want to run lipo are the ones who are trying to get the battery sponsered guys to slow down, or so they can catch up to them (depending on which side of the fence youre on). I personally like the way things are now. I tray my NiMH's to discharge them, they're done and equalized, I charge them, run the heat or main, then put them away till next race. Things are fine they way they are, and there is no reason to change them. It's bad enough ROAR is making us run brushless now, lets screw it up even more. Just my .02
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:51 AM   #137
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Factory drivers have nothing to do with it . The simple fact is that the "round cells are only good for paper weights. I had to throw away 21 cells I payed $240 for and wanted to make 4 cell packs out of . Someone told me thay the red and black cells were stable and they were the real deal. So, I must say that it isn't about any one else.... it's about having reliable equiptment. And if you are hurting Li-pos , you are doing something wrong. Granted the technology will be surpassed, but I will be damed if im going to waste another dollar on batteries that short out while I'm just looking at them!
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Old 10-22-2008, 09:59 AM   #138
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Factory drivers have nothing to do with it . The simple fact is that the "round cells are only good for paper weights. I had to throw away 21 cells I payed $240 for and wanted to make 4 cell packs out of . Someone told me thay the red and black cells were stable and they were the real deal. So, I must say that it isn't about any one else.... it's about having reliable equiptment. And if you are hurting Li-pos , you are doing something wrong. Granted the technology will be surpassed, but I will be damed if im going to waste another dollar on batteries that short out while I'm just looking at them!
Granted the 4200's would self discharge, but everything else I have owned worked oretty good for me. And the new 4600's I think are awesome. Sounds like you weren't doing something correctly to have that many cells go south on you. Again, just my .02
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:02 AM   #139
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My battery nurse didnt even keep them alive ... another $180 down the drain.
And I did my homework.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:03 AM   #140
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And if you are hurting Li-pos , you are doing something wrong.
Exactly how I feel about those that destroy EP or Ener-G cells......

I have experience with both LIPO and Nimh cells, and neither appears to be monumenatally more convenient than the other to me. But by all means, keep telling me that my 20+ years of experience in the hobby/sport means nothing and that LIPO will save the RC World.

Danny has said it time and again ( of course what does Danny know about batteries and the industry, right?), when LIPO becomes the ONLY formula, we'll be right back to where we were with good nimhs. Just the way it was when we switched from Nicads to Nimhs, many "racers" believed that we'd never have a battery war or unreliable cells again. They were wrong then, just as they are now........
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:14 AM   #141
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Let me put it this way ...
You only need one pack to race all night ! Maybe two.
And forgive me but ... when trinity cycled 10,000 cells and joel johnson gets the best ones..... u do the math. Yes , some li-pos are better than others. By the slimist of margins. Some may have a more punch .. but dont they all peak @ 8.4 volts? dont thay all have just about the same run time? Dont be stubborn.... admit it, Li-pos are the best thing thats happened to TC racing anyways . Look around . Everyone is using them! Except you for some reason. i know 12th is a different bird . the flat cells are a blessing for me. almost ZERO maintenance. and they always ROCK!
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:15 AM   #142
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Granted the 4200's would self discharge, but everything else I have owned worked oretty good for me. And the new 4600's I think are awesome. Sounds like you weren't doing something correctly to have that many cells go south on you. Again, just my .02
I have EP 4200's from last season that still perform quite admirably. I tray before charging, charge, run, and repeat. At the end of the day I put them away with some charge in them and they're just fine. Exactly like my 4600's. You can very easily club race 12th stock on three packs. I do it every time I race. If you can't make a full 12th scale season club racing on NIMH's without replacing them you're either running IB's or you're doing something else wrong. LIPO's don't like to be stored without charge either, and they also begin to degrade if not used for an extended period of time.

Overcharge a LIPO once, and it's done. Overdischarge a LIPO once and it's done. The same can be said for Nimh's but the threshhold for over-under on a NIMH is quite a bit more forgiving than it is for a LIPO. Just this past Sunday I listened to an accomplished TC racer complain about the failure of one of his Orion LIPO's, he said it was just slow on the track and lacked capacity. It was less than one season old....... I guess he just got a bad one.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:17 AM   #143
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Nobody.. or nothing is perfect in a realistic world!
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:18 AM   #144
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You worry too much.

Or, maybe it's because it is really really early in the season and other tracks are still winding down their outdoor activities. Maybe you are spot on and people don't want to purchase Nimh cells anymore and have seen the rumors of the 4-cell replacement battery. Maybe people have seen the posts by Donny in his efforts to test the SMC battery, and what the future will hold with it.
You maybe right, but we see.
Next time you come to 360, I like you to try my car, sincerely.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:30 AM   #145
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You maybe right, but we see.
Next time you come to 360, I like you to try my car, sincerely.
No problems... ygpm
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:30 AM   #146
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Let me put it this way ...
You only need one pack to race all night ! Maybe two.
And forgive me but ... when trinity cycled 10,000 cells and joel johnson gets the best ones..... u do the math. Yes , some li-pos are better than others. By the slimist of margins. Some may have a more punch .. but dont they all peak @ 8.4 volts? dont thay all have just about the same run time? Dont be stubborn.... admit it, Li-pos are the best thing thats happened to TC racing anyways . Look around . Everyone is using them! Except you for some reason. i know 12th is a different bird . the flat cells are a blessing for me. almost ZERO maintenance. and they always ROCK!
If you wanna run with the fast guys, you'll need at least two. It has nothing to do with peak voltage, it has to do with discharge curve, that's true for EVERY type of cell. And it's just as easy to get good Nimh's now as it is to get good LIPO's. Hell MaxAmps, one of the biggest pro-lipo companies in R/C, is already hyping how important it is to get "fresh" LIPOs! Batteries are batteries, the war will continue.

I agree that for the average, casual club racer, LIPO is pretty cool. They can be ignored and still offer marginal performance, but when the fast guys really start using them at major events, they'll start pushing them. Then your local hotshoes will start pushing them, and pretty soon it's common practice to beat on them the way we do nimh's now. 22+ years and all the changes, and it always reverts back to the same thing, everytime. Welcome to competitive motorsports.
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:45 AM   #147
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The 2.4v cells that I know about are Toshiba's. Maybe Panasonic's working on something as well.

On the topic of "the future" I'm betting that this is how it will happen. We'll have three groups of racers splitting up 12th at club races. NiMh 4 cell, single cell LiPo, and the 2cell small motor guys. One of these will win out in the end and ROAR (and everyone else) will either keep the current rules or draft new ones for the class that wins out.

As much as I'd like to run LiPo in 12th I've still got the same old round cells in my car. They work. The new cells last pretty well. Nothing new to buy and ROAR has rules for the class.

Once the SMC pack is out we'll see how it goes.
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:45 AM   #148
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RIGHT ON FRED!
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Old 10-22-2008, 11:51 AM   #149
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Once again Fred paints it out in black and white.------
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Old 10-22-2008, 12:48 PM   #150
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Man if you want to see a huge decline in the class go with your idea and see how many follow.Others have tried the same idea as you and posted their results on this thread.It just doesnt work out to be comatible with what is being run.As for equipment there is no way I will go buy a esc and motor that I wont be able to use in any of my other cars just to run 1/12.If I was going to buy a micro BL setup it would be to setup a 1/18 scalpel. As it stands all i will have to do is buy a single cell lipo and build a 5.00 receiver pack, and all my other gear will work in every other car I run.That has been the appeal of 1/12 especially where we live.After the snow falls you can take your gear out of your 1/10 cars to run 1/12 in the winter and not have to spend the money to buy dedicated gear to put in a car you only run for 5-6 months out of the year. Sorry but you are just being pushy about this now. I have read your posts and I get what you are saying , but you are asking to completely re-structure the class,and that is just too much change at 1 time.


Please donít say that Iím pushy. Others may have wrong impression of me because of your comment. We simple have different point of view. You are in favor of using single cell and Iím in favor of 2-cell. Am I not free to express my opinion?

Quote form post#1:ĒWho puts a gun at our head and demand that we have to run this class with a certain size of motor, certain capacity of battery, or even at a certain weight that a 1/12 has to be?Ē By the same logic, who says you have to do like I do? Why stop me from saying what I believe whatís the best thing that can happen to 1/12 scale racing. And if you donít believe me, thatís really fine with me.

And I think Iím a very open minded person. I knew some people will object to it, thatís why I post in post#1:

ĒHowever, let me be upfront about it, Iím in favor of the 1/12 with a 2-cell lipo. Iíll explain to you why I think a 2-cell racing package is better than a single cell racing package. Iíll show you what you need and how to do about it. You can post you opinion here even youíre for single cells, but just be more on 2 cells. I wish all the 1/12 scale racer have an open mind about all the discussion here, whether youíre for single cell or 2 cells, and that we donít rush ROAR into making any decision until more options are tried by more people. I suggest that a track that race 1/12 allow both type to be run together, only then we can see which type is a better way to run the 1/12 scale.

I merely suggest we should look at this issue more broadly. Am I wrong?

Yes, others have tried the same idea, 2cell with smaller motor, but failed. But that does not mean I fail too in my experiment. Actually, youíve read all along, and you know they failed, as I pointed out, because they used small-but-still-too-big of motor for this idea to work. And none of them were courageous enough to admit it. I just want people to know such a possibility.
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