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Old 10-15-2008, 06:37 AM   #31
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I do not like coming home from events smelling like wintergreen, and my wife certainly does not either. Certainly there should be a better way.
Jack doesn't stink and it seems to work ok so that's an alternative. Or Paragon's Traction Action (I prefer this over Jack). Or a few other "low odor" traction compounds. Yes, they're all pretty bad for you and you should be careful using them.

If people want to get Paragon (Ground Effects) out of their local track because of the smell then ask for the track to get rid of it. Not because it's bad for you but because of the smell.
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Old 10-15-2008, 06:43 AM   #32
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Pretty much ANYTHING that softens rubber is going to be bad for you if you get enough of it in your system.

Methal Salicylate is used in many sports medecines. Pretty much if it smells like wintergreen it contains Methal Salicylate. People have died from using these creams/ointments but they're still sold to the public because they're only a problem if used improperly.

So, don't drink the stuff and it's probably a bad idea to rub Paragon all over your body and run a freaking marathon. Is it the deadly "killer" that most make it out to be? Doubtful, and don't think that Paragon hasn't been investigated before because of complaints.

So, to continue the "try to shift focus" tactic. Here is a list of things at the track that can KILL you.

1) Second hand smoke (cigarettes)
2) Second hand smoke (from idiots that true tires in one pass)
3) Many motor sprays (on the skin or injested)
4) Other "odorless" traction compounds (many contain some pretty nasty stuff)
5) Water. (you can die fron drinking too much water, Hyponatremia)
6) Lead solder (dangerous for any number of reasons)
7) Solder flux (yup, it's bad to inhale)
8) Various oils and "speed drops" can kill you if you drink them.
9) Body cleaners use chemicals that are harmful so don't use them either.
10) Laquer based paints are toxic. (people use rattle cans to get high)
11) Dust off spray can give you instand frostbite if you hoze down a finger so it could probably kill you if you inhale it directly.
12) Bee stings. (allergic people)
13) Nuts. (allergic people)

Should you be careful when using chemicals? Yes. Am I going to die from Paragon? No, because I don't drink the stuff or "massage" it into the tires with my bare hands.

If ANY of the traction compounds make you feel funny, wear gloves when using them and get fresh air regularly.

For me, the smoke from truing tires like retards is what causes headaches and not the Paragon.
Fantastic Fred!
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:00 AM   #33
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LOL..... Fred can put it in the right perspective thats for sure.

Last edited by Lazer Guy; 10-15-2008 at 07:39 AM.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:05 AM   #34
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Yea, but you mix it with wine ........
When you mix paragon with 4 little bottles of wine you do one tire 4 times and wipe off the next bottle.
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Old 10-15-2008, 07:44 AM   #35
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When you mix paragon with 4 little bottles of wine you do one tire 4 times and wipe off the next bottle.
just don't get confused and drink Steve's spit bottle...
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Old 10-15-2008, 08:29 AM   #36
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How come gas cars don't use traction compound on their tires?

If we want to pass rc racing on to other generations, should we be exposing them to harmful chemicals too? Shouldn't we be proactive and look for alternative environmentally safe ways to gain traction instead of from treating tires with a chemical softener. I would really like my kids to try racing rc, but not at the expense of exposing them to harmful chemicals. We already expose ourselves to spray paint, body cleaner, oils, motor spray, etc. What sucks is that every form of electric rc uses traction compound and there's no getting away from it. Unless of course tracks ban the use of traction compound.

I received a PM suggesting traction control be implemented in speed controls. This could be a viable option? What about using slipper clutches on touring cars to gain traction?

Whenever I complain about the traction compounds everybody says to just stop racing if you don't like it. That's too easy of an out and I happen to enjoy rc racing, but I will not let my kids step foot into an indoor carpet track. It's ok that we sit there all day cause we know it's harmful and we're adults, but to let our newborn to 6,7,8... year olds sit in there all day with you is just irresponsible as a parent. I wonder if will I be stuck in my backyard bashing with my kids for the rest of my life or at least until they can decide on their own to be exposed to all those chemicals?
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:35 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by MACHFIVE View Post
How come gas cars don't use traction compound on their tires?

If we want to pass rc racing on to other generations, should we be exposing them to harmful chemicals too? Shouldn't we be proactive and look for alternative environmentally safe ways to gain traction instead of from treating tires with a chemical softener. I would really like my kids to try racing rc, but not at the expense of exposing them to harmful chemicals. We already expose ourselves to spray paint, body cleaner, oils, motor spray, etc. What sucks is that every form of electric rc uses traction compound and there's no getting away from it. Unless of course tracks ban the use of traction compound.

I received a PM suggesting traction control be implemented in speed controls. This could be a viable option? What about using slipper clutches on touring cars to gain traction?

Whenever I complain about the traction compounds everybody says to just stop racing if you don't like it. That's too easy of an out and I happen to enjoy rc racing, but I will not let my kids step foot into an indoor carpet track. It's ok that we sit there all day cause we know it's harmful and we're adults, but to let our newborn to 6,7,8... year olds sit in there all day with you is just irresponsible as a parent. I wonder if will I be stuck in my backyard bashing with my kids for the rest of my life or at least until they can decide on their own to be exposed to all those chemicals?
In most series it's banned, most series also have budgets that allow for proper working tires which are replaced each run. I don't find compound on rubber tires to be as big of an impact as foam, I'd hate to see people feel that they needed super soft 1 run tires to be competitive.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:59 AM   #38
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Traction compound on foam tires on gas cars racing outdoors on asphalt (phew that was long winded) just doesn't last very long. It does give more grip but is usually gone before warm-up ends. Your better off just getting the car to work without it. Plus, many of the better tracks spray enough goop on the track that we have to run brick tires anyway.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:38 AM   #39
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I hear ya....

I use paragon, but I try to be careful. I was more commenting on the rabid comments by the people that think racing will die if Paragon ( and similar products) are banned. Just like how racing will die if we run all BL and racing will die if we run Lipo.... or racing will die if we do XXXXXXX.....

It IS bad for you... but deal with it as you will.


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No denial here. I drink, I smoke, I get high, eat lots of red meat, and I use Paragon. I know one of them will kill me eventually, but the racer part of me wants to see which one wins.



You're not leaving it your hands long enough. Don't wipe it off for twenty minutes and I guarantee your hands will be tingling.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:49 AM   #40
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Another thing that gets me is that I feel we use traction compound cause we always have in the past and ROAR is too slow to make a change. In the end, won't the pecking order be the same on the track without the use of traction compound? Maybe tracks should institute "suntan lotion only" rules to soften tires.

I would like to see someone from ROAR comment on this thread.
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Old 10-15-2008, 10:57 AM   #41
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Traction compound isn't a bad thing. Yes, you have to use it properly but it's not a bad thing. Without traction compounds on carpet you'll end up with foams that are one run tires in pretty much all of the classes.

Suntan lotion works on asphault but may or may not work on carpet. Methyl Salicylate is used on sports medecines. It's not as bad as what people make it out to be. There are a number of other "non-smelly" things that you can put into traction compounds that is not good for you.

Oh, and most big gas tracks use traction compound. It's put on the track instead of the tires. Many tracks use VHT and that's not exactly environmentally friendly either.
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Old 10-16-2008, 02:05 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by MACHFIVE View Post
Another thing that gets me is that I feel we use traction compound cause we always have in the past and ROAR is too slow to make a change. In the end, won't the pecking order be the same on the track without the use of traction compound? Maybe tracks should institute "suntan lotion only" rules to soften tires.

I would like to see someone from ROAR comment on this thread.
So are you saying you think ROAR should ban Paragon? Or ROAR should ban all traction compounds? I for one owned and operated a carpet track. We switched from Jack to Paragon because of traction issues (lack of it in pan car). When we did I was surprised by how many racers told me they weren't leaving the track with headaches anymore from those other low or odorless compounds that we had been using after a couple of racing weekends with Paragon. Sure the smell in the building was a little stronger, but the traction was better and my hands didn't tingle anymore either.

Next thing you'll know you'll want ROAR to ban lead solder, flux, motor spray and paint at the track. I personally don't care for the smell of Paragon, but it's never given me a headache or made my fingers and hands tingle either.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:18 PM   #43
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What I'm saying is that nothing has been done over the last 30 years to find alternatives or even find an environmentally safe traction compound. We just continue to use Paragon with no thought of trying to find an alternative. Some of that ownus should be on ROAR as it has paying members and a responsibility to the racing community to look after their best interests. I feel as a whole ROAR should analyze all areas of rc car racing where any of its members could be harmed in someway and think about how that risk can be reduced.
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:26 PM   #44
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What I'm saying is that nothing has been done over the last 30 years to find alternatives or even find an environmentally safe traction compound. We just continue to use Paragon with no thought of trying to find an alternative. Some of that ownus should be on ROAR as it has paying members and a responsibility to the racing community to look after their best interests. I feel as a whole ROAR should analyze all areas of rc car racing where any of its members could be harmed in someway and think about how that risk can be reduced.
man! get over yourself will you? the whole world is going to hurt us if you have your way!
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Old 10-16-2008, 03:27 PM   #45
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the world is a dangerous place if you can't take it then quit
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