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Old 10-31-2003, 11:36 AM   #61
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I don't think that anybody here is arquing with his soldering(or whatever) method. Everybody knows that you can damage a cell if not soldered properly. We are all glad you have a technique for putting cells together better...

But.. the battery bars themselves is what we all have a problem with. You keep saying that they keep the cells cooler, when we KNOW that the GP3300s perform better when warmer...

Nobody is arguing that those tiny fins wont keep them cooler, that is obvious and common sense. What WE Are trying to tell you, is that maybe we don't WANT the cells any cooler.

right?
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Old 10-31-2003, 11:43 AM   #62
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Jeff,

The way I am reading this , that is the temp reading at a 4.3 mph airflow over the batteries ?

Thanks for the info, I think I may try a pack. Cant hurt to try one.
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Old 10-31-2003, 12:37 PM   #63
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Boomer, the 4.3 mph is the average speed of the car throughout the test. The test was conducted taking data points throughout the run at speed. The maximum and material cooling takes place when we have convection and turbulance from wind speed.

While I would argue that a 3% delta is significant and not noise level, I think it's more important here to look at the temperature consistancy throughout the cell. Overall temperature is important for 2 reasons:
1. reduce metals temperatures to improve electrical conduction for low internal pack resistance.
2. Keep the electrolyte temperature below the point where deterioration is accelerated and forstall excess hydrogen production and the resulting rise in internal case pressure.

Just as matching the electrical characteristics of cells is important, maintaining consistant electrochemical activity is highly advantagious to discharge capacity and the overall life-cycle of the cells.

Note the curve on temperatures from shrink to core on the fusion data. It is very flat compared with the Deans or Bone. Also note the difference between the Deans and the Bone and think about the physical profile of these 2 bars. The more massive and higher profile Deans cools better than the Bone. Just add some more surface area with fins and it might get even better!

But do think about that overall number too. races are one or lost on less than 3%. Take a nice club battery at 1.15 avg vdc and improve it by 3% and you've got a 1.184 serious cell. Just an anecdotal example, I'm sure there are many more.
Yes I realize you are highly tecnically literate, that's why I go into the minutia.
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Old 10-31-2003, 12:44 PM   #64
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sorry, I should have mentioned that the reason I felt that 3% could be considered "noise" is because the std dev is over 3%. . . that can be interpreted as a high noise level - this is likely only because there is a small sample involved. I understand this, but it does mean that there must be a slightly higher noise level.

Hmmmm, I think I'm going to have to try these experiments myself. I have a real hard time thinking that our batteries run at 170 degrees when we're barely moving the car. . .any batteries, for that matter. That's a real low amp draw. . .

Hmmmmm, {thinks of instrumentation needed to record amp draw, speed and motor/battery temperature over time. . .} I think a trip to Frye's is in order. . .
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Old 10-31-2003, 01:04 PM   #65
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You're good boomer, nothing gets by you. Regarding the current draw at low speed, cars were geared to simulate actual rpm at much higher track speeds. It's not perfect, but it allows more gentle manuevers and less error for mishaps carrying datalogging and ancillary equipment. It matches and even exceeds bench test results gathered by creating a load at the wheels while forcing air over the body. On the bench we have simulated higher speeds and gotten great results, but I never felt 100% about the wheel loads and the absence of aerodynamic forces in these simulations. Nothing beats a real world test, but we need to miniaturize the instrument package by using telemetry to remote the datalogging off the car to attain higher actual track speeds.
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Old 10-31-2003, 02:03 PM   #66
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It's just that now you've got my curious. . .

I haven't seen anyone do anything like that - and I don't think it would need to be in a straight line - it could be done with a tether. . .you know?that way you wouldn't need radio telemetry - a cable could be run along a tether, to a PC set at the middle.

Hmmmmmmmm -
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Old 11-09-2003, 10:53 PM   #67
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ttt
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Old 11-09-2003, 11:34 PM   #68
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to help cooling further why not make fins all the way around the bars, specially around the terminals?

also will hard wire to the tabs transfer enough heat to damage the terminal cells on a pack??
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Old 11-11-2003, 06:21 AM   #69
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I'm not sure about all this info, but if John Malin and Rob have tried these batteries and like them, then thats all I need to know.They are some of the best guys around and aren't gonna blow smoke up someone's butt for any reason. Thanks John and Rob for helping me decide if this product is worthwhile. See both of you up here in Dec at the Regionals.
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Old 11-11-2003, 07:50 AM   #70
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thanks for the kind words tony
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Old 11-11-2003, 04:55 PM   #71
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After reading this thread I thought what the heck,I just gotta try one of these things.
Since I race mod oval with [email protected] turn motors I guess I will know soon enough wether or not I threw away $60.00
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Old 11-16-2003, 08:15 PM   #72
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I met Jeff Chaskin today, nice fella and seems to be behind the product 110%. BTW, a handfull of racers ran the packs at our Florida State series race, and they were all fast, and nothing but good things to say about the cells. I think we will be seeing more of Fusion power in the future... I am sold...
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Old 11-17-2003, 03:25 PM   #73
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me so nasty! wooooooooooo now that is a honest post! he he

i have been told not to charge my batteries or dis charge them with a fan blowing on them..it increases the IR of the cells..thats a bad thing..so why would i need heat sinks again? the soldering deal is nice..just not practical for most..that is if they were to buy a pro match pack and sent it to you to have it assembled? shipping would kill the customer..a 40.00 pack turned into 55.00 with shipping..cya at the snowbirds..i'll be the guy handling my packs with a oven mit!
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Old 11-17-2003, 08:45 PM   #74
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it seems to me like jeff really knows what hes talking about

i have also heard 2 or 3 post where they tried the packs and really liked them nobody has yet to try them and say anything but good things

when i shop for more batteries i will definetly take a close look at the fusions

the only thing i would like to see is a label on each cell
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Old 11-18-2003, 05:28 PM   #75
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Got my pack today,there are labels on every cell but I suspect there wont be for long since there not laminated or under any shrink wrap.
I will be running it this weekend along side some Fukuama cells I also got in the mail today,the voltage on the cells is only 1.170 but the runtime looks good at 431-433,and there ad says there 1.170s will be as good or better than anyone elses 1.18s.
I will be running some very power hungry 6 turn singles so we will see how well they do averaging a 50 amp discharge.
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