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Old 10-30-2003, 10:13 PM   #46
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skeptical, yeah.
here's a suggestion. why not pass a pack or 2 to futureal for a review? since your so sure of your products, i believe you've got nothing to lose.

but of course, if you say no to my suggestion, then i guess you got a lot of things to hide
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Old 10-30-2003, 10:15 PM   #47
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All of you guys are so skeptical of his product. But look at what he said and his reasoning behind it. Everyone just saw 300% and your like no way he cant make packs run 300% cooler with just a few little fins. Like he said the 300% number is saying his battery bars release 3x more heat into the air than normal battery bars. We all know the main factor in heat disapation is surface area. And he increased the surface area on the battery bars. We all should also know that metals have lower resistances the lower there temperature. We should also all know electrical conductivity and thermal conductivity are closely related. A joint between a battery bar and pack with less electrical resistance will also have less thermal resistance, allowing heat from the batter to transfer at a faster rate to the bar, which in turn transfers the heat to the air. Undoubtedly his battery bars cause the the packs to run cooler, and will in turn decrease the packs resistance.

His soldering method also makes pretty good sense. If less heat is transfered to the cell your not gonna screw the cell up as bad. I'm sure his machine can make a much better solder joint than any of us could make by hand.

Nothing he has stated is false. He is giving us good information. All that really is left to decide is if it is worth it to shell out the extra money for his battery bars, or an assembled pack. And if jeff is selling his assembled packs at the same price as everyone else, and I was gonna buy an assembled pack, I would probably pick up one of his to try out. We all know we probably wont see as astonishing results as he has on paper, but the improvements may be better than expected.

At the very least you guys should be glad people like him work on products like these. If people stop working on improving the existing RC products, and just have their company produce the status quo, then we'll never see any improvments. Jeff seems like a smart guy, and I welcome people like him into this industry. People always need new innovative products that actually make your car faster. How else are you gonna beat your best friend without actually becoming a better driver than him?
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Old 10-30-2003, 11:04 PM   #48
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i agree with TimPotter. In view of the reasons given by Jeff, they align with the basic physics to the best of my knowledge.

From the development of RC aspect, we need innovations to improve our RC's performance.

From the cost perspective, the most expensive pack from Jeff around US$80. Why not give it a try, just one pack, as the price is about the same to some established matcher like SMC, Trinity, Reedy? You lost 80 bugs, at most. I am sure we are losing much more when we try different option parts from after market.

We are all familiar with the heat sink fins installed on our motor, charger and dischargers.

I am sure Jeff could only earn money from RC guys just for a few months if his product does not work. Most RC guys are performance demanding guy. If products does not work, they will turn their face from that product and never return. One year, that will be too forgiving.

Jeff, if your product really works, wish you an ever growing business.
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Old 10-30-2003, 11:08 PM   #49
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Man you guys have been sitting in front of a computer too long. You cannot judge stuff by how they "look" in a .jpg image. Try the product out and give a meaningful review or quit the "desktop quaterbacking".

Sheesh.
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Old 10-30-2003, 11:17 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by jeffchaskin
To popsracer,

That my friend is the laws of physics. Regarding the pigs, with the proper genetic engineering they probably could fly. Better buy a big freeking hat.

With enough thrust...anything will fly....

Barnum said there was a sucker born every minute.....from 37 to 64 amps with battery bars and solder?

Boomer: I like your haircut in your avitar.....think I'll get one just like it, but mine will only be 50% by choice.....the rest is genetics

My .02.... I still think the solder method is a sound idea, but it needs to be kept in context. What does an extra inch or two of wire do to resistence? What about the small gauge of the brush shunt? What about the tiny wire wrapped around the armature? What about the resistence in the corner dots I hit...opps, wasn't susposed to say that......

I'm glad you guys came up with this battery bar and the solder method sounds good. I hope it works out well and that you make alot of money. I think that some of the numbers you banty make me question though.....I think that this dialog on this thread should cause you to look closley at you advertising. If we took it sideway, so did others. It would be a shame if you had a good concept, but went down because of a advertising misunderstanding...

Just an idea....make a second version of that bar that has the fins extending up AND downward. 600% more surface area?

Last edited by Graphitedust; 10-30-2003 at 11:33 PM.
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Old 10-31-2003, 05:20 AM   #51
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Default Re: Re: Let me explain, I guess our ad needs work!

Quote:
Originally posted by berger
So how does the heatsink battery bar change how heat is radiated from the center? It cant, all it can do is get rid of the heat transfered from the ends of the cell to the battery bar more efficently.As that is its only contact point which limits the heat transfer from the cell, and therefore wont change how the heat is radiated from the center outwards.
Going to answer me?
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Old 10-31-2003, 06:07 AM   #52
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My TC3 can fly. If I hit the end of the pipe right where the hose meets it, the car flies really well.
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Old 10-31-2003, 06:47 AM   #53
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I think that the theory behind the numbers presented is sound. They've dont eh engineering and presented some of the calculations here to us all.

Each connection point in our cars is going to produce more resistance and losses. The main benefit of this system it seems is that it will greatly reduce the resistance of the electrical connections on the batteries themselves, allowing us MORE of the batteries potential for us to squander on our connections elsewhere.

And for those who are thinking that such a small change (how it's soldered) won't make any difference....if small changes don't make much difference...why did you spend big bucks on that Al or Ti screw set?? you know you have one..were thinking about it
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Old 10-31-2003, 06:55 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
And for those who are thinking that such a small change (how it's soldered) won't make any difference....if small changes don't make much difference...why did you spend big bucks on that Al or Ti screw set?? you know you have one..were thinking about it
Because they are blue/coloured and give my car more pimp ability, not bothered about the performance
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Old 10-31-2003, 07:05 AM   #55
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Yeah...but you know people spend BIG money to shave miniscule amounts of weight off cars...and don't even think about it...

These batteries DO look gimmicky....but if they work like the theory says they should...who'd have the last laugh?? Even if only the soldering process actually helps...
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Old 10-31-2003, 08:14 AM   #56
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I hope the attached file answers some questions for timpotter.

<to berger> - Try using a temp sensor (laser works OK) on your surface and battery bars after a run. See how nice and cool those bars are connected to the cell terminals. Behind them is the core of the battery. pimpin huh?

All of our temp sensors excepting the surface contact were implanted at the depths shown. The vehicle was moving on a hot Florida day on an asphalt track for the notated intervals.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf telem16_mov.pdf (4.0 KB, 235 views)
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Old 10-31-2003, 09:14 AM   #57
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Looks like it will not hurt to try a few of these bars.
What would happen if you made the fins longer?
Wouldn't that be more cooling?
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Old 10-31-2003, 10:34 AM   #58
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thanks for the chart. That was illuminating:

The difference in battery core temperature due to fusion soldering over hand soldering is an average (mean) of 3% (300 second figures used) over all core ranges.

The core battery temperature difference between the Deans bones and the Fusion bones, however, is more significant, from 1% to 10% when hand soldered (exterior to core temp) and 3% to 12% when fusion soldered (exterior to core temp).

Okay, that's a significant difference. 3% is negligible and likely within statistical insignificance (eliminate outliers in experiment and it would likely drop). 12% is significant, especially since the rise in difference correlates to moving inside the core of the battery. This would make a difference.

I would like just a bit of explanation - what are you meaning by the 4.3 mph? These are operating temperatures or are they soldering temperatures? While the numbers are significant, I need to know the context in which they were gathered.

Please understand, I have a very technical background. I work in a very technical field. I LIVE by benchmarks (just ASK me about the G5 vs. Opt(FX) vs. P4 vs. Ath benchs. . .) and understand that they must be placed in context for them to be understood and made relevant.
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Old 10-31-2003, 10:59 AM   #59
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Default Heat Sink Battery Bars

Guys;

This is the way I see it (and should you all).

The MORE someone tries to convince me of the merits of their product/service, the MORE skeptical I become.

A TRULY great product will stand on it's own.
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Old 10-31-2003, 11:23 AM   #60
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I think this info is great. Thank you Jeff.
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