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Old 10-07-2008, 11:08 AM   #1
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Default Need Advice, starting 1/12 scale but want cheapo setup

I am looking to give 1/12 scale a try, but as its not a class that has anything local here and with winter the way it is, probably won't get tons of use, I don't want to go in full bore. I want something that is respectable for club racing, cheap, and durable.

Having a one off from the current model is fine.

I will most likely use this with a brushless setup however. So any recommendations on that?


Finally, I know there is an issue with sensorless for touring, is it as big of an issue for 1/12? reason I ask is that I have a sensorless ESC here that I could use, thinking combine it with the appropriate motor, say a trinity duo could be a cheap way to go about it.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:16 AM   #2
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I run a 12l4, and its still competitive. Since everyone's wanting a 12l5, the 12l4 is cheaper now. and to be honest, there are few differences between the two that a newcomer can feel.

I still run Brushed motors, so i cant give ya advice.

Its a fun class! Cheers!
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:16 AM   #3
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Hard to beat an Assoc 12L4, can be had complete with parts for less than $100 and brushless will fit. No answer for your sensorless issue as I've always run Novak.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:46 AM   #4
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What kinda speedo?? Most are rather large and space is at a premium in a 1-12th scale. The cogging would bug me for carpet ( My sensorless stuff does with higher turn motors) ....used rc12l4. speed merchant, or CRC cars are good buys and can be fould here and ebay....
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:46 AM   #5
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If the issue you have with sensorless is cogging / hesitation it will be worse with a 2wd car. You won't likely "lose" traction, but it will make the car difficult to drive, you want to be as smooth as possible with pan cars.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:47 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigshades View Post
I run a 12l4, and its still competitive. Since everyone's wanting a 12l5, the 12l4 is cheaper now. and to be honest, there are few differences between the two that a newcomer can feel.

I still run Brushed motors, so i cant give ya advice.

Its a fun class! Cheers!
There is a difference between how a t-bar drives vs. a link car...

The newer cars (2000 >) are all pretty competitive and most will fit brushless with no problems as far as the motors go. The recent chassis (2007 >) have been optimized for the weight distribution of the motor in the rear pod. The thing you have to watch is the headroom for the speed controller. You will need an ESC without a heat sink, or low profile heatsink due to the bodies being low profile. If your Rx and ESC are good to go, you only have to worry about a smaller servo, and those will set you back <$100 for a very good unit. I have the JR and a Futaba, both are rock solid.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:53 AM   #7
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Like you, I got my 12L just for fun and club racing.

Watch the for sale forums or ebay for a used 12L4 chassis. After that point you can pretty much find parts for it anywhere. The one I got I completely went through it taking it completely apart (which wasn't hard, compared to touring cars these things are a breeze) and then rebuilt it. You can find the manuels and all the parts diagrams online. Your maintance on the motor will be reduced some and since you running on a club level it really depends on how bad you want to smoke your friends.
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Old 10-07-2008, 11:57 AM   #8
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On the brushless side, if you want your car to be driveable, you must run a lower wind motor. Your car will NOT start with any reliability with a 17.5 and no sensor. You run such a ridiculous rollout that the controller gets hopelessly confused. If you insist on running sensorless, maybe try the Tekin 632 or a faster motor. The Tekin sensorless motors start better sensorless than the normal sensored motors.
On the other hand, brushed motors seem to hold up longer in 1/12th scale than touring car...
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:10 PM   #9
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Cool Heads up on a 12th scale car...

Up front, save yourself money & time buy BMI.
1. Comes with all the hop ups in the kit.
2. It's one tough little car (and you will need it).
3. A stable chassie to drive and learn from.
4. The most important feature to this car is BMI service. And this means they will take the time to talk to you...walk you through the issues.

Jason at BMI knows 12th scale and after all its the service after the sale that adds the value to any purchase. Good car good guys.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:12 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post

Finally, I know there is an issue with sensorless for touring, is it as big of an issue for 1/12? reason I ask is that I have a sensorless ESC here that I could use, thinking combine it with the appropriate motor, say a trinity duo could be a cheap way to go about it.
the "issue" is when you run Sensored motors w/ SL esc's. if you ran a mamba max ESC/ motor, youd have no trouble not matter what its in. When you run sensored motors w/ SL esc's the car will "stutter" on start up/off the line, but once its rolling its fine. it isnt as bad as you go with faster motors (5.5 vs 17,5), but it still exists. it may not be as bad in a 1/12 because the car/drivetrain is lighter. havent seen anyone try it in a 1/12 tho.(MM is a brick in a 1/12)
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:23 PM   #11
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the "issue" is when you run Sensored motors w/ SL esc's. if you ran a mamba max ESC/ motor, youd have no trouble not matter what its in. When you run sensored motors w/ SL esc's the car will "stutter" on start up/off the line, but once its rolling its fine. it isnt as bad as you go with faster motors (5.5 vs 17,5), but it still exists. it may not be as bad in a 1/12 because the car/drivetrain is lighter. havent seen anyone try it in a 1/12 tho.(MM is a brick in a 1/12)
I've had the cogging problem in both 1/18th and 1/10 Mamba systems on carpet, running the motors that come with them, and I wasn't the only person experiancing this at my track, they would seem to stutter coming out of the tight corners. But I can say they don't seem to have the problem on the dirt oval or off-road. Maybe something to do with high grip track??
Went to sensored set-up in the TC with LRP speed control and Novak motor and have no problems. Have a Novak 4 cell system in the 1/12 and runs real nice.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:46 PM   #12
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Find out what CLASS that you can enter at your local track first....I heard a lot of track are picking up the 17.5/27T stocker motor rule. If that is the case, that probably is the cheapest class you can go for.

Associated last generation 12th scale is still competitive, 12th scale is all about driving...and you can pick up some setup from the local racer. Your only $$$$ spending item are probably 4 cells batteries and foam tires, more like foam tires more then batteries...some stocker matched 4 cells are $30-40 each pack, you will need 3-4 packs the most.

Speedo...look for Novak GTX or LPR QC2 or even QC3. Used one from Rctech can be like $70 only. 27T motor are like $35 the most...need some brushes. Used 12th scale should be like $100-$200 with plenty of parts and bodies. Body are like $20 the most. Foams are killer...probably $30 for a set and you need like at least 2 set for several race days if you don't care about being running at the top.

A cheaper Hitec mini servo are $50 or less new...

Overall....keep looking at the deal @ Rctech for a package, I have seen a lot of a full package except receiver and radio for $300 and less.
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Old 10-07-2008, 12:48 PM   #13
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thanks for the info guys. This is all VERY new to me as I did mainly touring onroad when I was in CT. Now its been offroad for a few years. Figuring as the only class that seems to have consistency as far at a variety of tracks is 1/12, worth a look.

Can anyone sum up the differences between the 12L4 and the 12L5?

As for electronics brushless, what are you guys recommending for a CHEAP brushless setup, esc and motor, or at least ESC?

What is the difference between the novak 4 cell ESC and there standard GTB brushless esc?

Any news on the SMC lipo for 1/12?
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:32 PM   #14
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I've read some testing was being done with the Novak Mongoose and the 17.5
SOME say it works ....IDK....it is though is the cheapest speedo for brushless and 17.5 at about $93 speedo and $89 motor.

The R5 is either a link or T bar car....you build to suit and uses a small shock in link mode rather than damper tube and side springs.
If you get a chance RCdocuments.com has manuals for most stuff on the market....check out how they are designed and make a choice...
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Old 10-07-2008, 01:47 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scootr117 View Post
I've read some testing was being done with the Novak Mongoose and the 17.5
SOME say it works ....IDK....it is though is the cheapest speedo for brushless and 17.5 at about $93 speedo and $89 motor.

The R5 is either a link or T bar car....you build to suit and uses a small shock in link mode rather than damper tube and side springs.
If you get a chance RCdocuments.com has manuals for most stuff on the market....check out how they are designed and make a choice...
I the mongoose set-up for 12th. Great little speed controller. I only had one issue at one track on one particular layout. I haven't seen the issue emerge since then. The track is the one in the video that I posted on you-tube (mongoose in rev 5). The track went down the straight into a sweeper that ended with a 180 into an immediate90 deg right. At the 7 minute mark the controller would cut-out right after the sweeper, just before the 90 deg right.. Every time it would temp at 104 deg on the heat sink. Long e-mails with Charlie revealed the fact that it was never set-up electronically/software wise for 4-cell racing (like the GTB 4-cell was), so in rare occasions little issues like this would pop-up. Many things were tried to resolve this (in concert with my e-mails with Charlie), the only thing that seemed to work in this situation was to start to roll the throttle through that section, and everything seemed to be ok.

That said, I know for a fact that Charlie was beating the tar out of a Mongoose at the IIC in World GT using the handout LRP 13.5. The little speed-o has the clout to handle racing, it is the 'when' the 4-cell issues would pop-up.

I have some new tricks that I am going to hit the little guy with next. We'll see if it survives (again)...

I believe that the 12R5 builds as a link car out of the box, and the t-bar gear is available separately. The Rev. series cars from Speed Merchant has been winning National titles for years, and I am sure that there are 4s and 4.5s in the classifieds sections for decent money. The great news is that the Formula front suspension will bolt right on...
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