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Old 10-02-2008, 12:34 PM   #46
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I suppose you also want to thank everyone for making brushed motors better because everyone uses brushless. I have been away from r/c for several months and when I stopped by a track last week, not 1 person was using brushed motors, now that's progress!!!
Actually, the current state of brushless is great. I had worried initially that it might be even more advantageous for sponsored drivers, but that didn't really come to be.
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:40 PM   #47
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I could care less if there is a battery war... I didn't care about the wars when it was happening with NIMH. The main reason I think everyone went to LIPO is because of reliability issues with NIMH which I beleive lasted for almost a year. Another thing to consider is that you don't have to time your charge down to the last minute with LIPO... I guess you skeptics just have to try it and see for yourself..

As for lipo performance dropping off. It is true with any battery but a 6 month old lipo will be closer to its brand new performance than a NIMH after 2months of limited use....

My only regret about switching to Lipo is that I was a little late dumping all my NIMH battery gear. I ended up selling it for less than 25% of its original value....
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Old 10-02-2008, 12:48 PM   #48
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I have some concerns regarding reliability as suppliers rush to meet the demand for more power.

We are starting to see more cells swell up and fail for reasons unknown. It could be because of user error or because there are simply more lipos than ever.

I hope its not the start of a bad trend.
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:03 PM   #49
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I don't like LiPo and I don't use it. But I am so very grateful to all of you who have forced LiPo on everyone - thank you.

Having stayed in NiMh, my cell costs have halved inside a year, and are now less than two LiPo packs - thank you LiPo!
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That`s why nobody buy`s or uses those old cells anymore...

No body was forced either , it was all about a better performing , durable battery...

gotta love the 'everyone and nobody comments.

the first guy says his nimh pack costs are half what they used to be, and yet they cost less to two lipo packs, so then thats what, 175 bucks for a nimh pack. just thought that was funny.

second guy, nobody uses nimh, better performing, national champs would have to disagree

i use both types of cells, both thier advantages, both thier disadvantages. its just which one out weighs the other for what YOU want at a given time.

IMO
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Old 10-02-2008, 01:07 PM   #50
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Call me naive but I dont see any battery wars. I don't see people running out to buy new "gotta have" lipo packs. I look around at my track and I see almost as many brands as there are people. I think most of the people claiming "battery wars" are the people that predicted them prior to lipo being legalized. They just want to be able to say "I told you so!". Maybe it exists but I just don't see it.
ditto

we have some that tell everyone to run out and buy the lastest "C" rating, i do my best to inform the locals against racing labels. ("racing labels" is a term i have stolen from a earlier post)
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Old 10-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #51
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we're all a marketing divisions' dream. if there's a version 2 model and we take all the parts off the market for version 1. well then version 2 must be better (that and we now dont have a choice of running version til the parts bin runs out). only way to do that is to stop going thru cars, motors, radios etc like underwear. but then companies go outta biz, prices go up, ugh. no win situation.

so just let folks keep buyin the lie and u run ur stuff. and if matters that much, get your kix when u beat em.

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Old 10-02-2008, 03:24 PM   #52
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I dont know where you've been Johnny, but there isn't one thread about Lipos where it was claimed Lipos have no issues...just the opposite, experts have always chimed in and warned racers about safety issues, proper care, etc.

Seems like you're one of those nimh lovers w/ a grudge a gainst the progress of Lipos and Brushless tech. Get over it...Lipos are cheaper to run and maintain and safer as well with proper care.

Did you buy a fire extinguisher for your cell phone? Maybe it will go poooooooof and burn your ear off
I'm pretty sure the most vocal people on the forum, at one time stated that "LiPo Shangrala" was coming and we should have no fears. The key words in your statement, "maintain and safer as well with proper care", was what was stated, that was no longer required once these LiPo became mainstream, especially the maintainance part. I'm just saying, like most others, there is NO such thing, when racing is concerned, as much as we all had been told.

Now if I was charging my cell phone or my lap top or my cordless phone or my cordless drill at 3c I would be concerned about it, but since most consumers only charge with what was supplied by the manufacturer, it really isn't a issue. Now when the adventurous experimenter/racer starts to push the limits of cell charging, well then, things can change very quickly. My comment about the "D" spec extinguiser was still based on the original reconmendations, and thought it was shocking to see that they went for upwards of $750 dollars for what was. BUT reguardless of that, any safety measure should be something thought of in the forefront, and not after thought. How many buckets of sand do you, personally, have around your home? Any of these problems aren't just revelent to the pits at your race track, but your home too.

Now me, personally, I will use whichever technology is out there that proves to give the most advantage, and I'm prepared to do as much maintenence as it takes to stay at that upper level of racing. If it means babysitting Nimh batteries, so be it, or balancing LiPos, whatever, as I consider it just part of the hobby. You gotta do a little work to get a little reward.
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Old 10-02-2008, 03:42 PM   #53
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Johnny, many consumer devices do come with rapid chargers. So be concerned, I guess.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:18 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by billjacobs View Post
I suppose you also want to thank everyone for making brushed motors better because everyone uses brushless. I have been away from r/c for several months and when I stopped by a track last week, not 1 person was using brushed motors, now that's progress!!!
Bill, you do realize that by 09 everyone will have to be running brushless? At least if you are running by Roar rules anyway. I could still be running brushed motors, but whats the point? I might as well start learning about brushless stuff now and get as far ahead of the curve as I possably can. Not trying to pick a fight here, just wanted to make sure you new about the Roar thing.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:21 PM   #55
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What I'm waiting to see is what will happen to 12th scale, or better yet, what type of Lipo we will start to have to run? Single cell or two cell? There is a voltage problem anyway you look at it. Food for thought , eh?
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:26 PM   #56
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Tim, I agree totally with what you're saying on a club level.

There isn't currently a LiPo war going on. Most racers can't feel the difference between a really strong LiPo and a fair LiPo. As LiPo becomes the norm, the differences will start to emerge. Once the FAST guys start pushing to get more out of them we'll see what shortcomings they do have. The aircraft guys (my father among them), that have been using LiPo forever will tell you the differences between LiPos from different vendors are huge, and that not even all packs from the same company are created equal.

Like Jack Rimer and Danny have said over and over again, when we all start using LiPos we'll be right back where we started.

I distinctly remember being told Nimh was gonna end the battery war too......

I AGREE 100% Nihm was supposed to be the savoir.. And at first it was ok and got really good with GP cells, then them IP and IB cells took over and it was all over from there.. The wars never ended. Just as Danny stated from day one, once we are all using them(insert racers, bashers no offence dont count, they can never give proper feedback on something they run by themselves) Racers exploit the weaknesses and that market for better lipos is here and now, and when joe racer spanks you in the main and you find out he was running a new SMC 60C 6000mah pack your all gonna go running to the LHS for yours,,,, The great positive thing right now is they are all pretty equal it seems(from a club racers point of view) the simplicty of them is amazing. I dropped 4 nihms,2 chargers,a toaster,2trays and the need to baby sit the packs through the race day, for ONE single lipo and a single charger,
I charge the nite before tape it in for the night and hit the sob with 8amps between heats... Consistant power from run to run, no more wondering wich of the 4 packs was that good pack??

I was never a lipo hater but i was a realistic observer at first, they are going to take the BS and VOODOO out of club racing for many of us, but as time goes on they will end up just like any battery in the past...... Pushed and pushed again till we figuer out how to break them
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:36 PM   #57
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Now when the adventurous experimenter/racer starts to push the limits of cell charging, well then, things can change very quickly.
Heard people at the IIC were charging their Lipo's at 10 amps. Is there a real advantage to this or is it just the NiMH school of thought carrying over to Lipo's? I was under the impression that 1C was enough and never over 2C.
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Old 10-02-2008, 04:51 PM   #58
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Jack Rimer and danny at smc are in the business of selling batteries. What do you expect them to say: buy 1 lipo pack and use it for 5 years?

Lipo and nimh are on par only because you have to weigh down a lipo pack by 8 ounces for them to have the same weight. Take away that 8oz and a nimh pack doesn't stand a chance (once you setup the car for the lighter weight.) I am not even talking about less part breakage, less tire wear, etc.

The only reason people are talking about a new battery war is because the hardcore r/c racer market has more money than sense. If you make a gentleman's agreement to run a specific lipo pack (brand and model,) the "battery wars" will never even start.

But r/c being what r/c is, the hardcore racers and manufacturers will take every technological advance and find a way to lose more racers because of it.

Oh well.

As for charging lipo's at 1c,2c,3c, go back and read some of linger's posts. He actually works with lipo cells for the medical device industry (I think) and has great knowledge to share.
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:06 PM   #59
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Heard people at the IIC were charging their Lipo's at 10 amps. Is there a real advantage to this or is it just the NiMH school of thought carrying over to Lipo's? I was under the impression that 1C was enough and never over 2C.
For a 5000mah pack, 2C = 10amps...
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Old 10-02-2008, 05:11 PM   #60
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I think the name 'racing' implies going fast, and if you go faster than the next guy you win........
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