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Old 09-28-2008, 04:46 PM   #1
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Default Rubber on Carpet: Need Info

My local club has some very strick rules about not allowing rubber on carpet.

The reason behind this rule is the fear of excess wear on the carpet.

Is there any pros and cons to running foam or rubber on carpet.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:51 PM   #2
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Hey Josh i have talked to matt about this he wont budge,that is just about all we run is rubber sedan,i have not seen any more wear than normal,i think if he would ease up h migth pull in some more racers.
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Old 09-28-2008, 05:58 PM   #3
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I assume your using CRC carpet? I'd call those guys up and ask.
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Old 09-28-2008, 06:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by steve eaves View Post
Hey Josh i have talked to matt about this he wont budge,that is just about all we run is rubber sedan,i have not seen any more wear than normal,i think if he would ease up h migth pull in some more racers.
I tried tell them that normal club racers want rubber. Rubber tires avoid the dymanic setup changes caused from foam tires changing ride height. Most club racers just want to put laps in, not spend money. If racers do not constantly adjust their car to the changing tires, the car can become a danger to the carpet by snagging or cutting.

My other point that I tried to convey is that the motor dictates the carpet wear, not the tires. Increase the horsepower, increase the wear.
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:23 PM   #5
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just look at the groove left by foam vs. rubber.
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:27 PM   #6
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Rubber won't hurt the carpet, just hurt him if his shop is onsite due to not as much money made with rubber on carpet. Rubber would be cheaper for everyone to run the foam, but if it was a green track, foam is the only thing that will put the compound down on the carpet quickly. I really don't understand this guys thinking. He would more then likely pull more people in if he ran rubber.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:42 AM   #7
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I guess some people are just too set in their ways as to how they like to do things.

Just an idea, but why not suggest a rubber and foam class? Honestly cant see how rubber will wear the carpet quicker, my local club race foam and rubber together in stock and it works out fine.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bear View Post
just look at the groove left by foam vs. rubber.
Not an option, rubber not allowed.

The carpet is not green. It is several years old and has a well defined grove for oval racing. The club is so protective of the oval groove that road course must run counter-clockwise so that the grove is lay of the carpet fibers is not changed.
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Old 09-30-2008, 04:41 PM   #9
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Our carpet is ozite. The 3 onroad cars always can start running oval if its going to continue to be a problem and onroad can go away.......we are an oval track that is allowing onroad to be ran. If they don't like the rules they can go to another track which they like to threaten to do all the time. So we decided ok go BYE. I know its harsh but thats the way it is. We will let onroad run as they have for years with us locally but we are staying FOAM ONLY we all already own them so its not a even a problem. The real fast rubber touring drivers from other places are buying rubber tires as often as foam to stay fast too so it is not a money issue. We will let the run, no problem. They just must use foam tires. Its our rules for our track, just like other tracks have rules like no paragon. When we are at their track, we follow their rules. When they are at ours, they will follow ours. We hate rules like that sometimes, but when we are at their track, we follow their wishes. If they want to run rubber when outdoor season is here, they can run them on the asphalt. So if fun is what you are after, come run what everybody else is running. If you want something else, bring it up at the track and it will be talked about. This issue has been dealt with, and the answer is no, and always will be. Sometimes you get what you want. Sometimes you don't. This is just one of those times. If you don't want to run your touring car with foams, maybe you would like to run 1/10 scale pancar with foams. Maybe that is another option to look at and bring up at the track.

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Old 09-30-2008, 08:14 PM   #10
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Just curious other than "we say its that way".. Why don't you allow rubber tires?
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:08 PM   #11
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Maybe thats why theres 3 onroad drivers
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:10 PM   #12
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That's the most depressing thing I've ever read on this forum.
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Old 09-30-2008, 09:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SRL BOARD View Post
Our carpet is ozite. The 3 onroad cars always can start running oval if its going to continue to be a problem and onroad can go away.......we are an oval track that is allowing onroad to be ran. If they don't like the rules they can go to another track which they like to threaten to do all the time. So we decided ok go BYE. I know its harsh but thats the way it is. We will let onroad run as they have for years with us locally but we are staying FOAM ONLY we all already own them so its not a even a problem. The real fast rubber touring drivers from other places are buying rubber tires as often as foam to stay fast too so it is not a money issue. We will let the run, no problem. They just must use foam tires. Its our rules for our track, just like other tracks have rules like no paragon. When we are at their track, we follow their rules. When they are at ours, they will follow ours. We hate rules like that sometimes, but when we are at their track, we follow their wishes. If they want to run rubber when outdoor season is here, they can run them on the asphalt. So if fun is what you are after, come run what everybody else is running. If you want something else, bring it up at the track and it will be talked about. This issue has been dealt with, and the answer is no, and always will be. Sometimes you get what you want. Sometimes you don't. This is just one of those times. If you don't want to run your touring car with foams, maybe you would like to run 1/10 scale pancar with foams. Maybe that is another option to look at and bring up at the track.

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That is a very harsh statement to let the local racers know that the SRL board would rather just kick the sedan racers to the curb than make a minor adjustment in the racing format to accomendate additional income. What is even worse is that none of the board members even truely particiapte in sedan racing so why should they be concerned with class rules? It is even stilly that with the $179 RTR's the rule is imposed that they must run foam tires that cost $40.

I have thought about running 1:10 pan car for road course so that I can not look at the grass being greener with Jaco Rubberz or MuchMore Sweeps. But why should I buy a new road course car if the board just wants to drive oval only? If I did go pan road course, could I run 3.7V Lipo? in stock or will that lower voltage be a MOD only for the sake of it.

***Sarcasim Removed***

Does it not bother SRL that there are just as many spectators that own r/c cars in the classes raced as there are racers? Think about it, there must be a reason why they are leaving their cars at home and comming in just shoot the breeze for a few hours then leave. Maybe it's the rules or how the board acts. I didn't start this thread to drag the SRL through mud. Since the SRL wanted to voice thier opinion here, I voiced mine.

Last edited by trailranger; 10-01-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 09-30-2008, 10:41 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trailranger View Post
My local club has some very strick rules about not allowing rubber on carpet.

The reason behind this rule is the fear of excess wear on the carpet.

Is there any pros and cons to running foam or rubber on carpet.
It is true that rubber tires do stress the carpet more than foam. The rubber heats up and gets soft and sticky to the point of actually pulling up the racing surface similar to pulling tape up. Foam tires have good traction but do not exhibit this same tackiness that actually pulls fibers from the glue.

To combat the problem and address the increasing popularity of rubber tire racing and the increasing speeds of model car racing in general, CRC has developed our new improved racing carpet called Fasttrak HD. This new carpet was used at the 2008 IIC with great success. The IIC had a good number of rubber tire entries and the carpet held up great with much less fuzzing and super traction throughout the weekend. HD will be featured at the US Indoor Champs in Cleveland as well.
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Old 10-01-2008, 08:59 AM   #15
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CRC on comparison for foam tires. How was the wear rate of the carpet compared? Was it natural or exotic foam tires compared to the selection of rubber sedan tires. Also just recently "Carpet Specific" compounds like the MuchMore Sweep LHS have been made. Could the new rubber tires account for less wear with the use of Fasttrak HD?

In your opinion why does rubber stress the carpet more for CLUB racing? Would Modified Foam racing wear the carpet faster than Stock Rubber?

Is the wear more because rubber holds together better than foam under the same forces? Meaning the foam with sand away into dust while rubber stays intact causing the carpet to wear instead of the tire?


My opinion that even with rubber tires being up to 4mm narrower than foam tires, the contact patch during high lateral forces is higher on rubber. Foam tires do not give or "compromise" as much as rubber tires and if the car setup is not perfect for that corner, the tire can lift or roll reducing contact patch. The lifting and rolling effect is exaggerated by truing tires to "Race height" and re-iterates that set-up is everything. Anytime there is a reduction in contact patch, contact pressure is increased to maintain support of the vehicle.

Rubber tires in our sedans were developed with sidewall "compromise" and squirm patch. Even if the car setup was not perfect for that corner, the tire will maintain more contact patch.

Since race tracks consist of many corners of different radii and entry speeds car setups tend to be a compromise between every section of the track rather than one particular section. This means even with a dialed setup, the tires still need to function as not every corner is the same.

I am looking forward to seeing some OBJECTIVE data form racers, track owners and of course Manufactures like CRC. IMO the information gleaned from this thread could lead to positive changes in the classes. It could be beneficial that ROAR eliminates the Dual-Classes of FOAM and RUBBER for Stock and Super Stock. Only with objective data could a decision of that magnitude be made.

Last edited by trailranger; 10-01-2008 at 02:23 PM.
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