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Old 12-25-2010, 07:28 PM   #631
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Now your starting to sound like the oval guys. They too have declining numbers.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:46 AM   #632
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The decline in on-road classes is because Tamiya no longer promote their scale 'moving models' in the way they used to. Try most model shops and you no longer see the huge rows of Touring Cars with the twin stars on the box.

New blood arrives in on-road through people being able to build and drive cars out of the box. None of the pan cars on sale today can be raced out of the box. 12th grew at its fastest rate when Tamiya made the Porsche 956 on a pan car chassis, and declined at its fastest rate when first the Sand Scorcher/Rough Rider came out, and later the Nissan Calsonic Touring Car.

People could go into a model shop, buy a car, build it and race it. Today, they can't in on-road or oval, but they still can in off-road thanks to the many RTRs from AE, Losi and Traxxas. It is no wonder places rip up the rug and pile in the dirt - that's where the new racers are coming from.

If people who see a bunch of Rules for a new class (WGT) then decide they don't want to stick to them and race something else, why is anyone surprised that the class dies??!!

Pan cars of any description are for the racer who knows stuff, not for the newcomer. Having no TCs in Tamiya boxes will never bring the new guys into TC. Until that changes, off-road will always get the new drivers, and we can only hope they come and try the on-road classes and stay with us. Sad, but true...
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Old 12-26-2010, 08:30 AM   #633
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Your so wrong- I started racing probably before you were born.When I started there was just 1/8th gas 2wd and 1/12th. Yes there was Tamiya with a over complicated 1/12th car that nobody would touch.Everyone bought Associated-Bolink or Leisure-MRP.When the off-road started Tamiya was out there with there plastic junk. You break a part and you have to by a tree of useless parts to get the one part on the tree. Associated with there gold tub RC10 changed that.
Tamiya has always been a way to start a class with a plastic whatever. Every time they tried to make something to race it failed. The one exeption is there very pricey TC car.There off-road cars never made it past the WinterChampionships in Lutz ,Fla (Feb).
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Last edited by BullFrog; 12-26-2010 at 08:45 AM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:04 PM   #634
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+1 bull. i recal early 80's watching 1/8 and mid 80 watching 1/12 scale car running. then later on watching 1/10 scale pan cars catching on. bolink, ae, trinity...

tamiya was known as basher toys... you wantd a real offroad u got a ae or kyosho
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:09 PM   #635
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price is what bring people in or out of the hobby. the other factr is complexity. we are in an era of instant gratification. if the toy takes too much work to make work it gets dump. this is why rc as a hobby is suffering world wide. on the other hand pc based games take off. the level of investment on the video game side is minimal and the satisfaction instant.

you need that instant satisfaction to hook todays folks into the hobby
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:19 PM   #636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcko View Post
you need that instant satisfaction to hook todays folks into the hobby

And that would explain why the Slash proved so popular. I've heard several arguments that onroad needs something similar but i have yet to see a company deliver. Or rules that would accomodate such an off-the-shelf car.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:35 PM   #637
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The thing that on-road is missing is promotion. When I started racing in 1980, the R/C magazines at the time covered on-road races and had advertising from manufacturers. The magazines at the time were mainly airplanes but they had race coverage.

RCCA didn't come around for about 4 more years. I really miss Competition Plus!

The magazine today are geared to backyard bashers not racers. Race coverage is rare and there is no advertising by on-road companies.

On-road needs more coverage and investment by the manufacturers.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:11 PM   #638
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Now you did have Traxxss try this several times. First with a 1/12th car and when the TC came out the Tech4(I think that's what it was called). both were a piece of junk. When someone would show up to race one and they were not competitive (contrary to what the hobbyshop said) and there was nothing to make them competitive, the new hobbiest went home never to be seen again.
If you want to race or practice with an on-road car at home(I do) you have to spend time blowing off the driveway. An off-road you just run them anywhere. Again if someone brings most of the RTR off-road vechicles to a race they to will be left in the dust .Then to be told they spent there money on a something that is not race ready.
This is getting away from the orginal thread.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:11 AM   #639
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The original intent was "to spec or not to spec"...to look at it that way I think that spec would be a good way to go right now. What is working for VTA (in spite of all the ESC craziness with adjustable timing and what not) is the fact that they use 1) existing chassis already on the market 2) recognizable bodies in spite of performance 3) company involvement which allowed savings to be passed to the consumer

If we can re-evaluate WGT in light of these things I think the tide can be turned and WGT can become a fun class that anyone can get involved in
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:21 AM   #640
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We had a new to WGT racer try it out last Sunday with a borrowed car. He said it was easily the most fun he's had racing on-road in a long time.

He didn't do too bad either. We race WGT Spec by the book. Chassis used are mostly CRC and AE, all 13.5 motors and a mix of ESCs from Tekin, Novak, LRP and Advanced. All running on CRC or Jaco WGT Spec tires.

The best part is that regardless of body, or ESC it is just seconds between us. Not hitting anything is more important than the body or ESC.

The only area that we stray from WGT rules is that our race director forgets that it's a 6 minute heat and programs the computer for 5 minutes.

Bottom line is that if you keep it in spec it's a real driver's race and as such is the most fun I have had other than racing Tamiya TL-01s in the late 90s.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:22 AM   #641
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Because it does not fit your idea of what class is - it's not a class? Then I would suggest you come to Florida for our state races Jan 19th and even the snowbirds and see how this is such a dead class is doing.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:33 AM   #642
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I didnt say that it wasnt a class Mr Fraden, I was just noting the things that have helped VTA to achieve the level of growth that it has experienced (which has included some growing pains as with anything). I think WGT can be a wonderful class and be a great alternative to TC for people who want a fun but fast class.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:37 AM   #643
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Here are some comments based to spec or not to spec... I just got back into rc racing and what attracted me was VTA. The cars looked good, they werent speed demons and just about any 4wd chassis worked. I was able to get into the hobby again for cheap. So here is my comment regarding WGT:

1) Keep it affordable.
2) Group drivers by skill level / speed.

For us already used to/involved in the hobby the affordabilbility is a non issue. We got the stuff needed to run. However, a $200 chassis is easier to buy than a $500 one

Speed, this one is hard to control and this is where SPEC could help the most if done right. I dont know what RIGHT means, however.

My experience with VTA was that it got soo fast with the newer esc that I saw no need to run VTA. I might as well run open TC and I did.

With WGT, some of the comments I gotten locally is, "if they were slower I would run them". This is a hard one to accomodate locally in areas with a small or low turnout of racers. Fast guys will be fast regardless of what is done to control speed...

With large turnouts, qualifiers take care of the speed grouping and guys in the lower mains dont mind being in a lower main since they have another 5 to 9 equally skilled cars to run/compete against.

Small turnouts is where the speed issue comes into play since typically there will be a large lap times mismatchs and the slower folks get to experience the pain of getting bumped and runed everyother lap of racing. It takes a special type of newbie to stick it out through this environment. Also it takes a special type of "local" fast folks to encourage/nourish the newbie driver. The newbie should also recognize his level of talent, ei his limits. On track manners also should emphasize fast guys to behave or give some "special" care to the slower guys, ei minimize bump and run etc. This is a hard issue to enforce/practice.

So, I think the spec or not to spec is a matter of local racers to decide. At national events / big regional events the "nationally" accepted and published rules should apply. At local events, club events etc; It should be at the discretion of the folks supporting/engaged with the local effort.

An old class come into mind, Bolink Legends... What caused this class to die and 1/10th scale pans to loose attraction? THink about these and make sure that whatever gets done with WGT doesnt fall into the same traps. ON the contrary, think what is being done with 1/12th and what keeps it alive all this years. On that same hand, what is happening to current TC classes (personally I think it is cost of tires).

Last edited by rcko; 12-29-2010 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:53 AM   #644
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i race at the track that the OP did and we do not run WGT anymore. the biggest reason was that the spec did not work at our track. the lilac tires made it difficult for even the seasoned racers to get a setup that was consistent. so the racers that we had consistently show up slow migrated to other classes. the problem with this is that if we were to "not" spec those same guys go to the bigger races and did not want to run a setup that would not be used at the big races.

we have a similar issue with rubber sedan at this point as well. the guys that run the class like spec tires. but not all the spec tires work at our track. now that there are other options for spec tires. they found a tire that works at the track and are used at some of the big races. but the attendance for rubber tc is low.

our most consistent class is 1/12 and i believe that the reason is 2 fold. first is that the class is raced nationally and we follow the "roar" rules. and second, those rules work on our track conditions. but the big thing that keeps the class stronger is that we have a core group that always race 1/12 and this group is competative on a national level.
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Old 12-29-2010, 10:06 AM   #645
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Trackman- RCGT is like is smaller that WGt down here. There is a new carpet track in Plant city (Tampa for everyone that does not know the area). They also run another dead class- F1.It does not matter what class you run. You go out and run . If your not as fast the the fast guys- don't be scared to go over there and ask questions.Even try to follow their lines around the track.My teammate has not touched an R/C car in over ten years.Started back with a WGT and a GTB ESC. He now gone to a Kinetic but does not have it set on the fast modes.He's still getting used to the speed.
In a real club race by qualifying in the heats and doing a resort you'll get grouped by racers closer to your talent regardless of what equipment you are using. That's how they do it here in Florida. Racing is fun so go out and enjoy it rather than try to regulate it to death and not racing. If you don't like the class there are many others to choose from.
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