pgeldz

Hey guys,

Just wondering what you thought would be the best Tamiya chassis for the Japan 23T class. We run normally on Sorex 36R slicks this time of year.

I normally run my TA-05R for the 23T class. It does quite well. I also run a TA05-R for the GT Tune motor class, but replaced it with a TB-03 shaft drive and let me tell you, the TB-03 is a dream to drive. I started out a long time ago with a AE TC3, so I guess I'm partial to shaft drive...

Which is what got me thinking of changing my chassis to a lightweight carbon version. Can't decide if I want to run a TRF 416 or the new TB Evo 5 MS. The MS has the bigger bearings of the 416, and is basically a TB-03 on steriods without the IFS.

Tamiya Japan's best factory driver (Maezumi-san) came down last week and used the TB Evo 5 MS and KILLED the competition. Of course he was a pro driver, so I'm sure he could do that with just about any car.

What got me thinking of the EVo 5 MS over the 416 is that I qualified right behind him with my TB-03 in the GT Tune class.

Maybe my style prefers shaft drive? Dunno, but if I was able to do that with a shaft drive in the GT Tune class, I was thinking I may be faster with the Evo 5 MS in the 23T class.

The 416 looks nice as well though. Very easy to drive from what I hear. IMHO, best drives were always slightly smoother coming off the corners, but had less punch than the shafties, at least in my experience.

So, what do you guys think...TRF 416 or TB Evo 5 MS for the 23T class?

- Paulie

hobbipro

iTrader: (23)

Seems the 416 is hard to come by right now, but I read somewhere Tamiya was going to run another batch of them soon. I personally picked up a EVO 5 (not the MS) and so far I'm having a blast with it. I run a brushless 10.5 in mine. I also have the IFS-R and really like them both. I will say if you must have a spool then the 416 would be a better choice since one is not offered with the EVO. But also, since you say it will be a 23T class only, and you can live without a spool, then it would seem the EVO would be the best choice since it will be more efficient with that type of motor. I know this probably hasnt helped, so just go with your instincts, you cant go wrong with either kit.

syndr0me

iTrader: (32)

I've got a 416, but every time I see a picture of the EVO V MS, I get the urge to buy one. I don't suppose there's any life left for shafties in slow classes (17.5) on carpet?

Minami

iTrader: (5)

i don't have any of those kits, but i'll buy the evo5MS over the 416.

Hebiki

iTrader: (26)

evoIV spool works on the evoV

hobbipro

iTrader: (23)

EVO 4 spool has been discontinued for some time, and are hard to come by. I looked high and low for one, and came across a shop in Germany with some in stock. They refused to ship to the U.S. so I gave up on it. It handles well enough without one, and if your smooth a one way can actually be faster.

pgeldz

I use a 1 way, so it doesn't bother me that there is no spool for the EVO 5 MS.

Hmm...

- Paulie

stocker

iTrader: (2)

Hi Paulie,

can you describe (in detail if possible) the difference between shaft (TB03) and belt drive (TA05) in the 23T and in the GT Tune classes (in terms of driving style/feel/etc)?

Is my assumption correct that 23T is similar to 13.5 in BL, and GT Tune is similar to 17.5T?

thanks!

alana07

iTrader: (53)

get the TB Evo 5 MS if you're running 23t, get the 416 if you're running mod...

pgeldz

Well, I never ran the shaft (TB03) in the 23T yet, but I'll tell you my experience with both classes thus far.

As far as both classes being close to the brushless ones you mentioned, I couldn't tell you, I've never ran brushless (here in Okinawa Japan, the fastest rubber tire EP class is 23T, 3700 battery limit).

I originally bought a TA05R for the GT Tune class, and converted my Yokomo Drift Pacakge drift machine into 23T specs, since it's based on the MRTC4 touring car.

The Yokomo (shaft drive) felt similar to my old school TC3, and was blazingly fast. For racing though, it wasn't durable enough. I broke 3 diff covers in one day from folks crashing into me.

Instead of stocking up on those and having to convert back and forth to drift, and grip, I got a second TA05R for the 23T class.

When the TB03 was released, I immediately jumped on it, and made into a sort of TB03 "R" model, using the same type options that came with the TA05R.

Most people say shaft drive is harder to drive, and that belt drive is smoother. I'd have to agree for the most part if you are using motors like 19T and lower. The thing is, I like the directness of the shaft drive better, as I feel it has more punch out of corners, etc. With a GT Tune motor, there is absolutely no torque steer what so ever. When I used the TB03 for the first time in the GT Tune class, I was just faster overall. Maybe my driving style suits a shafty better.

When Tamiya's TRF Pro driver came down last week, he qualified 2nd in the GT Tune class with a TA05IFS, and I qualified 3rd right behind him with my TB03!!! I was estatic.

In the 23T class, I had my TA05R, and the Pro driver (Maezumi-san) was using his new signature edition TB Evolution 5 MS (MS=Maezumi Special).

He was blindingly quick.

For the next race, I'm going to swap cars and use the TB03 for the 23T class, and my TA05R for the Gt Tune class.

If I get a good result with the TB03 in the 23T, I just may have to get the Evolution 5 MS. I actually talked to Maezumi-san, and he told me there is NO torque steer with the Evo 5 MS with a 23T, and you can use a brushless 17.5 with NO torque steer either.

So I think the Evo 5 MS was tailer made for Japan's 23T class, where the 416 could handle hotter motors a little better I'd think.

In the US, 19T motors are the fast "stock" class right? Here, it's all about the 23T motors (bushing not bearing).

So that's my experience so far. Hopefully that helped some.



- Paulie

Minami

iTrader: (5)

imho, shafts are better than belts for 23T and lower classes in general. i really like the direct feel of shaft driven kits.

stocker

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Paulie, your posts have been very informative for me.
When you said your driving style may suit shafty better, what do you mean? How is your driving style?

You think the TB03 will have a R version soon? I don't run mod and prefer the closed gearbox because of the surfaces I play on.

pgeldz

Well, I try and set my cars up so I can get on the throttle EARLY, stabbign the throttle. Of course you can do this with your finger, but I like the ability to set my throtttle profile in the ESC so I don't have to fether it as much when I'm driving.

Currently I'm using an LRP QC3 speed control and I can set the throttle profile to one of 6 settings. This lets me find a setting where I can just stab the throttle to my liking and not have the car get out of shape.

Even on the most agggressive setting, the belt drive car is still to tame for me...

Not sure if any of that made sense, but it is what it is, he he he.

As for a TB03 "R", I highly doubt it'll come any time soon. I bought all the parts to make my own R model and it was only $90 less than buying the Evo 5 MS in the first place. You live and learn I guess.

So if the TB03 does well in the 23T, I'll buy the Evo 5 MS for that class, and use the TB03 for the GT Tune class like I've been doing.

I'll sell 1 TA05R and use the other one for the other touring car racing here on Okinawa...23T FOAM Tire class, on a permanent track made from a double tennis court. But even then, the TB03 may be faster there as well, so I may end up selling both TA05R's.



- Paulie

SlideMasteR

ok I have owned a Tb Evo 5 and have only one complaint about the chassis and that is that its a ball acke to change a spur gear!!! and with the 415/416 its a breeze other than that both are awesome chassis to run but I would go with the 416 as that would leave you with some other options later for running mod motors ! just my 2 cents !

mac853

Undoubtly 416, without need thinking between these 2 chassis.
I think shaft drive has advantage if you race 540 silver can.
Even i am still using 415MSX, but i could tell you in our 23T/11.5R champs., majority cars are 416, even is not tamiya cars, but almost all cars are just belt drives(TC5R, T2008, Cyclone TC, etc).
About shaft cars, we have only TB EVO4 or TF5 shaft drive, but never could go better than last place in B main or sometimes in the C.