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Old 09-07-2003, 07:05 PM   #1
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Default Sway Bars

If you run a sway bar, say at the front, you get more rear traction, but,

do you lose front grip and not gain rear grip(just a feeling of less front grip)?

or

do you lose front grip and a gain rear grip
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Old 09-07-2003, 07:37 PM   #2
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that is the best question i have ever heard, and i also want to hear the question, great question tom. Come on people with the answer, lets hear it, i wish i could, but i'm not experienced enough to know.
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Old 09-07-2003, 07:47 PM   #3
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Well, a sway bar on one end simply does its job by limiting the movement of the suspension arms on one end(in order to prevent excessive body roll), & as a side effect, they tend to reduce traction on that end, but do nothing to improve grip on the other end.....
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Old 09-07-2003, 07:54 PM   #4
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A rear sway bar will give your car more steering and a front swaybar will give you less steering. If you have a lot of over steer it's usually a good idea to use a front sway bar, if you have a lot of understeer then you should use a rear swaybar.

Does this answer your question?
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Old 09-08-2003, 12:36 AM   #5
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I mean,

if you add a sway bar it takes away grip at that end. But do you lose this grip (like its taken away) or is the grip take from the sway bar end used on the other end (non sway bar end gaining grip)?
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Old 09-08-2003, 12:58 AM   #6
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I always thought adding a sway bar ADDED grip to the end you placed it on... which is the whole point.. pulling pressure against the inside arm, to level out the car.. more level/less roll = traction across both tires rather then just the outside tire = more traction..... am i wrong?
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:10 AM   #7
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When you use a swaybar on one end of the car, it is meant to keep the car level on that end. When you use a swaybar, most people don't do it to kill the traction on that end, when I use a swaybar to increase traction.

If you have a non swaybar setup, your springs will generally be pretty stiff. When you go to a swaybar, to get the ideal performance, you would go softer on the springs. This way you still get the same body roll as you would with stiffer springs, but you can absorb more bumps and rough track conditions with the softer spring.

On smooth tracks, I usually try to go with just springs, on bumpier stuff I go with swaybars and softer springs.

Rule of thumb for swaybars:
Car is loose entering the corners, stiffen the front first, soften the rear second.
Car is loose exiting the corners, soften the rear first, stiffen the front second.
Car pushes entering the corners, soften the front first, stiffen the rear second.
Car pushes exiting the corners, stiffen the rear first, soften the front second.

There ya go guys Let the testing begin
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:23 AM   #8
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So I suppose if you had a perfectly flat track with a flawless surface, perhaps like a carpet track, you would run heavy springs WITH F and R sways?
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:47 AM   #9
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Very possibly. You don't have to use the stiffest springs you can find, but typically you will run stiffer than you would on a rougher surface, or one with less available traction. Keep in mind that adding a sway bar does reduce grip on one end of the car, but not by as much as you'd think, & it only does so when the suspension arms move to that point where they meet resistance from the sway bar. But with stiff springs, there's a chance they arms won't move that much, & therefore won't be as affected by the sway bar as they would with softer springs. As I said before, you don't actually gain any extra grip on any part of the car with a sway bar, you just lose a little on that end where you installed it. The real purpose of them is not to affect traction, but to limit the chassis' tendency to roll or flip when there's too much grip & you dive into a corner at high speed. That makes your car's handling more consistent at the limit, so you may be able to turn consistent laps more easily.....
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Old 09-08-2003, 03:06 AM   #10
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Default Re: Sway Bars

Quote:
Originally posted by Tom
If you run a sway bar, say at the front, you get more rear traction, but,

do you lose front grip and not gain rear grip(just a feeling of less front grip)?

or

do you lose front grip and a gain rear grip

although it may be construed that way, the primary function of sway bars, is to control, minimize the roll or sway of the chassis.

... since you're "stiffenning" the suspension, the by-product of the swaybars go to traction.

... adding front sway bars do not increase rear traction.
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:09 AM   #11
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So would it be considered a good idea to set your car up with no sway bars at all... then add them later to fine tune? I don't think I have ever seen my car tend towards flipping over.... but I run in 27t class...

A ton of great information here, but I am still pretty confused
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:43 AM   #12
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there are a lot of correct answers in the responses, but grizzbob's is perhaps the most complete.

Tom, to best explain it, you have to understand why you would want to use the sway bar to begin with. One of the ways to get more grip is to allow the car to roll, which allows the tires to "dig in" when entering the turns. If you are on a track that already has a high amount of traction, then this roll can be detrimental, because it can make the car feel twitchy entering the turns, or worse yet, more susceptible to traction roll, the result of having too much grip. Adding a sway bar will force the suspension arm on the opposite side of the car to lift with the arm that has the cornering force applied on it. This reduces the roll of the car, and the overall effect is that the tires will not "dig in" as much as they would have without the bar. What might happen is that the car may end up feeling more balanced, resulting in a car that can drive through the corners faster.

So, to sum it up, the net effect of adding a sway bar is that you will lose a little bit of traction on that end, making it seem like you have more traction on the opposite end. You don't gain any additional traction on that end, the balance of the car just makes it seem that way.
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:51 AM   #13
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Ok I think that I understand a bit more now... but I was always under the impression of the exact opposite.

You would THINK, that by adding a sway to the front for example, would limit the roll, or the L and R control arms ability to travel in opposite direction, keeping the weight of the front of the car distributed across BOTH tires, rather then just the outside tire... you would THINK that doing so would ADD traction rather then take it away.

I imagine a car rolling completely to the outside... all the weight comes off the inside tires, giving 50% traction (50% of the tires holding weight).. but with an anti-roll bar installed, it keeps the car from rolling, forcing more of the weight onto the inside tires. common sense would tell you that traction across 4 tires is better then traction across just the outside two....

So perhaps the concept of running a sway bar doesn't lign up with common sense ? I do not have enough rear end traction it seems currently, so you suggest taking my rear sway off ?
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Old 09-08-2003, 10:29 AM   #14
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When your car is in a turn, roll is caused by G-Forces which are basically pushing the car to the side. If you are in a right hand turn, the G-Forces are pushing the car to the left side, so that most of the weight is bieng transfered to the tires on the left side. When you add roll, you get even more weight transfered to those tires, and that adds traction. The inside tires really dont do too much in hard turns, you'll notice that if you run on an oval track, or even road course with more turns one way than the other, you'll get uneven tire wear.

One way to lessen the roll of the car is to shorten the camber links. This will have a similar effect to running swaybars, but just not such a "sudden" feeling, it will be a smaller change. One more way to lose the roll of the car is to lower camber link.

There's only really 1 way for you to learn all of this, and that's on the track, you gotta test this stuff out for yourself and see what you like.
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Old 09-08-2003, 10:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Randman
When you add roll, you get even more weight transfered to those tires, and that adds traction.
I have always thought the opposite. Thats usually why the higher performing, faster, high-traction race cars have little or no roll at all. According to your logic, you would think racecars would be 12 inches from the gound and would be leaning all over the place going around corners... but they dont.(obviously a huge exaguration ) They are usually very stiff, with no roll at all.

I know in my real car, reducing the amount of roll has greatly increased my traction. are RC cars different?
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