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Old 09-06-2003, 10:15 AM   #16
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If we look at 1/12 pan though, for the longest time, they were on 6-cell. Same with oval. The advent of 4-cell has slowed the car down to the point where it is drivable for more people.

I guess what Im saying is, 6-cell TC will eventually be too fast for the average driver. And if new technology is right around the corner that will bring voltage way up, then maybe it will be too fast for most people veen sooner than we think. So the release of these 4-cell TCs could be very well timed, just in time to start to ween people off their 6-cell cars.

Just my opinion
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Old 09-06-2003, 10:28 AM   #17
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Paperboy,

6cell 1/12 pan is coming back!
Believe me ....you'll see.
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Old 09-06-2003, 11:39 AM   #18
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wow, i'm always looking for more power, maybe my setup just stinks..
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Old 09-06-2003, 11:56 AM   #19
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I'm not sure I understand the argument about the cars being too fast. It's never too fast. If you want slower, that's what the other classes are for.. stock, 19T, etc.

I don't think you need to worry about it being too fast until you have an electric class running at 80+mph for 30+ minute mains like 1/8th nitro onroad.
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Old 09-06-2003, 02:30 PM   #20
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Ok, Ill put it this way. ROAR recently instituted a 10 turn motor limit at national events. Would it not make more sense to leave motors unlimited, and reduce the voltage actually going to the motor?
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Old 09-06-2003, 04:16 PM   #21
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I'd rather see 1/10 Pan cars make a comeback. Low-tech, fast and fun! And today's high-rubber content foam tires would last forever on them.

I still have a HPI RS10G and a AE RC10L on standby waiting for the comeback .


And what's with that Losi 1/18 truck?
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Old 09-06-2003, 04:50 PM   #22
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Dino,

Here is my 02 on this subject.

As far as the manufacturers are concerned. I am willing to bet a shrink of exsisting kit, is very cost effective, a whole bunch less engineering cost then designing a new chassis. The two 1/12 TC are from TC centric companies, and the other Rumored 1/12 is from Barracuda... I think it is a cost effecive way to bring a new segment to market.1/10 tc is the "Ultra Competeive" class of the moment, and we are always look for fun classes to run, so why not make something that we are familar with fun.... 1/12 TC. Will be cheaper to run, smaller packs, less weight, easier on tires... and just plain cool.

Sure HPI had a time with thier RS4, but I know people that still have them and love them.

We will see how this sorts out, I for one already backordered a Xray 1/12 from mdi ( one of 6 people that did ).
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Old 09-06-2003, 08:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by RC Paperboy
Doesnt anyone think that 1/10 touring cars are too heavy, too fast, and too compicated? I for one think we need to go to 4 or 5 cell, because the cars are becoming too fast.

Think about 3 years ago, when TC became popular. Top packs are maybe 1.11. With 6 cells, thats 6.66 volts. NOw, top packs are 1.19. 6 cell, thats 7.14 volts. Thats about a 10% increase in power from the battery, not to mention the leaps and bounds in motor technology that we've seen. And taht the capacity is so high you can afford to overgear a little.

I just think with the increases in technology, we need to limit the speed of the cars somehow, and that instead of limiting the motor, we should be limiting the batteries.
Why on earth would anyone want to do that? It just doesn't make any sense at all! Why should we limit the speed of the cars as technology increases? What purpose does limiting the speed of the cars serve? All that will result in is boring racing. The reason that the FIA tried limiting the speed of Formula One cars with new regulations such as tires with 4 sections instead of full on slicks in the late 90's is because of safety concerns, this isn't a factor for us and thus there is no reason to limit speeds. Ironically, regardless of the FIA's attempts to limit speeds and slow the cars down, as chassis technology, aerodynamics, and other things progressed the speeds of the cars actually began to rise. The same principal applies to R/C, if IFMAR or ROAR limits the speed of our cars by putting limits on certain aspects such as motors or batteries, more time will be focused on technology in other areas such as chassis development and speeds will increase accordingly. Limiting the actual power does not mean speeds will not increase, there are many other means of going about increasing speeds aside from sheer power.

Touring cars are not too heavy, they are not too fast, and they are not too complicated. Have you ever seen top factory team drivers duke it out in a 1/10 touring modified race? It's amazing to watch! Regardless of their super human driving skills, it would not be as fun to watch if they were racing 4-cell Mabuchi motors! Mabye we should just completely abolish all modified motors so our cars don't get too fast!

Sorry if this came off as rude, but man... I just can't even fathom why anyone would want to limit the speed of our cars, especially in stock racing!

Back onto the initial topic, I have already preordered one of the new XRay T1M's. I think it is going to be a great new class, I believe we will be racing 19t 4-cell at MDI. Even if the class doesn't become a world wide phenomenon like 1/10 touring, it will still be a popular class at MDI .

The arguments regarding "purpose built" tracks really doesn't fly, one of the biggest arguments made by the proponents of Mini-Z's were that tracks could be created in your garage or hobby shops could build a very small track and stick it in their shop, even if it's a very small shop... well it just never really took off despite the claims of purpose built tracks, so even if you *could* build a purpose built track for these new 1/12 tourers, that really won't be a factor at all.

You don't run 1/12 pan cars on smaller tracks simply due to the fact that their speeds exceed that of a 1/10 touring car, thus you run them on tracks designed for 1/10 touring, the same principle applies for 1/12 touring cars.

I really think the future of R/C will be brushless motors powered by the Lithium-Poly batteries, more information here: http://www.rctech.net/forum/showthre...threadid=23496

Last edited by Accord; 09-06-2003 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 09-06-2003, 09:06 PM   #24
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Spooky, you may have a point...the re-engineering of cars like the Xray mini would be fairly minimal. A few of you have brought up the cost savings or "cheaper to run" aspect of these cars. 2 cells is going to make that big a dent !!!!! I doubt it. We're still talking the same motors, tires,wheels, and electronics. So how will this be treated as something less than the "ultra competitive" 1/10 scale cars. As for any comparison to those of us who love to run Tamiya Mini's......well...they're Mini Coopers !!! They're cheap, basic, upgradeable(but how many people really care),Cute as hell and the basic lure is because they're Mini's !!!!! Simple.
I wish the manufacturers alot of luck. Maybe because of the 4WD and duplication of the 1/10 suspensions, this class will find a niche.
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:37 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by RC Paperboy
I guess what Im saying is, 6-cell TC will eventually be too fast for the average driver.

Ok, Ill put it this way. ROAR recently instituted a 10 turn motor limit at national events. Would it not make more sense to leave motors unlimited, and reduce the voltage actually going to the motor?
6 cell to fast for the average racer? Nah I doubt it.... can you say "throttle control"(quote from IMPACTPLAYR)? To fast for a newbie? Yes!!

Good quality mod motors are in excess for $60 each, people who are serious about racing mod, replace there motors alot, look at the factory guys ever seen pics of there cases with like 100 armatures ready to go? How does the average joe compete with this? If there was no motor limit the sponsored guys would be running 5 turn singles and the non sornsored guys wouldn't ever get a show in. Putting a caping batteries, well c'mon that's how the companies make money, when they bring out new stuff alot of people upgrade even if it's not necessary.........

Last edited by fatdoggy; 09-07-2003 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 09-07-2003, 05:50 AM   #26
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Default 1/12 TC....why???

The answer to this is quite simple really. Not everything new thing in RC is dictated by what willed be raced. Even though new ideas usually gets ruined by racing, they usually start off as just fun things to do.

Sedans-> started as a fun class.....ruined by 'hardcore' racers who took it a little too serious.

Micros-> started as fun class......ruined by 'hardcore' racers who took it waaaaaay to serious!

T/E-Maxx-> started as something fun to do........ruined by 'hardcore' racers who had to lower the suspension and put them on the track.

1/12 TC-> starting as just something fun to do. Even Yokomo advertises it as something fun to play around with. But alas.....it too someday will be come the next 'too serious' thing. With titanium this and graphite composite that.....

But, as for why they bother doing it. As I said, thats simple. Its something new, cool, and fun to mess around with....

....until it gets serious and loses all the fun!
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Old 09-07-2003, 06:52 AM   #27
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Ever pay attention to the races.....most people cant drive the way it is now.

I know I know everyone on here is a perfect driver and the only reason they lost the race is because they could only find packs with a 1.19 cells and those factory guys have 1.21 cells....its a conspiracy that has nothing to do with driving skill.
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:09 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by patcollins
Ever pay attention to the races.....most people cant drive the way it is now.

I know I know everyone on here is a perfect driver and the only reason they lost the race is because they could only find packs with a 1.19 cells and those factory guys have 1.21 cells....its a conspiracy that has nothing to do with driving skill.
Nobody is a perfect driver, it is impossible to be perfect at anything becuase everybody screws up now and then, even if it's just a little screw-up.

Ummm excuse me? Not everybody has *sick* batteries. Although batteries do make some difference they arn't worth jack if you can't hold a line and stay off the boards most of the time. I run 1.116v 2400 packs and I can do ok in club races, there is more to being fast then just batteries.

Running packs with less voltage helps you a crap load because you have to work on other things to do well. There is a young kid at my track that has all the best gear, he can do ok but he hasn't learnt to put the effort in to make his car fast, instead if he breaks his car he just buys a new one. Then their is another kid who runs unmatched cells and he is getting better and better each week, two weeks ago I had no trouble passing him, this week I had trouble(you know their getting better when it takes you 3+ laps to pass as opposed to half a lap the week before.

My point is, that most newbies don't start racing with the best packs and as they get better they have the option of buying better packs which will be a hugh advantage becuase they have learnt to drive with inferior packs.

Last edited by fatdoggy; 09-07-2003 at 04:15 PM.
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:32 PM   #29
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We're kinda getting off track but you guys are bringing up some good points that I hope a few new drivers might see.
Darkseid brings up a great point and something that should become the theme for more clubs,tracks and races. FUN !!! There's a big difference between telling a new racer the benefits of buying good batteries and telling a new racer that they won't be a competitive driver without good batteries !!!!
Anyways, back to the question of 1/12 TC's. Darkseid, I can't help but think that the manufacturers are just as guilty as we are. These cars are not being designed or marketed as "funmobiles". Then again,that was my original question....just what the heck is their purpose and why would you buy one????
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Old 09-07-2003, 05:30 PM   #30
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I guess my scarcasm was lost....
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