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Old 08-20-2008, 09:59 AM   #1
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Default Touring cars maxed out

hey all: Just wondering if 1/10th electric touring cars have maxed out in terms of popularity and unique designs? I know all types of rc racing have their ups and downs and i think tc's are in a bit off a lull right now. Also while many companies offer a competiton level 1/10th 4wd sedan some would say that most of them are basicly the same design and add to that the fact that most tc's are more complex than they were ever ment to be are factors in my opinion for the tc lull right now? Any thoughts are welcomed and thanks
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:21 AM   #2
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lipo optimized cars will be next. Perhaps with a focus on durability and performance with the extra weight that can be added elsewhere.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:30 AM   #3
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I guess I should say brushless motor optimized too. I would say most cars now were built for brushed motor (lighter then brushless) and nimh batteries (heavier then lipo). I think we will see more cars like the Losi Type R, Team Magic E4, Servos moved to the battery side or some other variation of those.
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:52 AM   #4
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Just wondering if 1/10th electric touring cars have maxed out in terms of popularity and unique designs? ...
The chassis design space has been explored pretty thoroughly, sure. As far as I'm concerned this is a *good* thing. Obsolescence of equipment really drives up the cost of racing. As things are now, you can run a three year old chassis (that you can buy for $100 on EBay) and be plenty competitive at the club level. There are some folks who enjoy learning a new car and for them, there are plenty of new cars to choose from that contain minor refinements. And if you want a major design change, you can run Team Magic. (Or get a used Street Weapon.)

The transition from brushed to brushless has reduced turnouts at the club level. Brushless has been wonderful in terms of reduced maintenance but the entry cost is high for the non-hardcore racer. A brushless ESC is like three ESCs in one so it costs more, and the initial cost of a brushless "stock-equivalent" motor is nearly triple what a brushed stock motor costs. (And yes you don't need a comm lathe with brushless but the casual guy didn't have one, he got his buddy to cut his arm as needed, or lived with a square comm.)

The cost of brushless on its own would not have been a problem if brushed and brushless played well together, but the promotion of 13.5 as "stock-equivalent" did huge damage because a stock motor cannot compete with a 13.5. The hardcore guys gravitated to 13.5 and the casual guys melted away. 17.5 is a better choice, and is starting to grow, but the damage is done.

Brushless has a huge upside in mod but stock and 19T were always more popular than mod.

So the racing addicts are enjoying the benefits of brushless but the casual racers have dropped out. This will turn around as the price of brushless stuff continues to drop, but that will take time. If the power tools guys started putting 540-equivalent brushess motors in their products, that would drive the prices down faster, but I'm not holding my breath for that.

The down economy and the price of gas has hurt too. The economy will come back but the price of gas is only going up so that will continue to put a damper on things.
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:57 AM   #5
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DEATH to touring cars!!! We must all do our part to see the resurgence of pan cars come true!!!

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Old 08-20-2008, 01:28 PM   #6
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The designs of touring cars of different manufacturers has always been pretty much the same. There always seems to be some design trend where everybody copies one another.
First everybody followed the HPI RS4, a while later we had a shaft drive era. Then the belts came back and they evolved in what we have now.

At the moment it is all about a simple belt lay-out and low centre of gravity I think. I wouldn't be surprised to see some different designs show up in the next couple of years with lipo and brushless becoming more popular. They shift the optimum weight distribution.

As for pan cars, they have always been here, they will always be here. They can live side by side with touring cars. Touring cars have just evolved from parking lot to carpet racers. Maybe TC's should go back to the roots...
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:33 PM   #7
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Touring cars are suffering a bit right now for u.s., but they flourish over seas. So just because our little island is having issues does not mean other places are.

There is no need to slam pan chassis as I enjoy running them as well. However, I started with and learned on a sedan and have more fun running my trusty RDX foam with a 13.5 than anything else. With rubber tire picking up momentum, any sedan haters shouldn't hold their breath to see the death of one of the greatest classes ever.



In my humble opinion, I see the situation like this:

brushed motors are more inconsistant and probably hampered some of the better drivers. Now with brushless, the power is ALWAYS there. Better drivers have a greater advantage now because they are prepaired for the aditional power and are making better use of the consistancy.

This makes an even larger division between those who have the abilities and knowledge to run brushless and those who are entering the hobby. the bar, has been set higher. Pseudo echo of MarkBrown, those who were good got better and those who struggled then got even more frustrated.



Those who know how to not only drive any car fast, but also exactly what to pay attention to will always be faster. pan chassis or TC. It is my belief that with the rest of the world running tc, its not going anywhere. Tc already dominates pavement and only because some people cry too much has it suffered on the carpet.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:42 PM   #8
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In my humble opinion, I see the situation like this:

brushed motors are more inconsistant and probably hampered some of the better drivers. Now with brushless, the power is ALWAYS there. Better drivers have a greater advantage now because they are prepaired for the aditional power and are making better use of the consistancy.

This makes an even larger division between those who have the abilities and knowledge to run brushless and those who are entering the hobby. the bar, has been set higher. Pseudo echo of MarkBrown, those who were good got better and those who struggled then got even more frustrated.
I have noticed the opposite. The good drivers also knew how to tune brushed motors well and theirs were always consistent while new people struggled with both learning how to tune a motor and learning how to drive. Rather then getting extra track time they were at their pits juggling batteries, truing comms, and changing brushes. Now that brushless motors for the most part are equal and consistent run to run the up and coming guys are a lot closer to the "fast guys". In our super stock class there is about a 3 lap spread from first to last. In the brushed / nimh era that was like 5 or 6 laps.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:05 PM   #9
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I think you may see more people shift to economic, quality cars. It seems like people are realizing that a TC5 is probably just as capable as an 008, and a whole lot more affordable, both to purchase and maintain.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:07 PM   #10
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...... Maybe TC's should go back to the roots...
It has www.USVintageTransAm.com

It's what brought me back into the hobby, equalized playing field where my driving means more than most anything else.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:22 PM   #11
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If you look at the major players in the world of TC, they all look the same now. Others have come and go with different designs, but it never really caught on. Even then I won't want to see TC get replaced by pan car designs.

Pan cars are great, but lacks the mechanical aspects of the TC. All the moving parts, suspension, etc, adds to the "fun" of a scale car. I drive 1/12th scale too and love it, but I think the layout should stay in its own class. Cars with seemingly complicated suspension like the TA05IFS will delight mech freaks, but still can roll with the CF chassis.

Pro-level RC is getting to the point of races like Nascar and F-1 where all the cars look the same insideout, just different color schemes. I think that is why the SuperGT races are getting popular. You see different varieties in body styles and chassis, yet revolves around rules that create close battles.

Tamiya has done a really good job in keeping that spirit alive with their line of chassis and bodies. The cars are all real bodies which even normal spectators can relate to, and even gain interest in the hobby(good example is the TA class). The addition of the TB-03 is a good example to diversify the chassis selection, which was dominated by the TA05 for some time.

I really liked the JRXS typeR's layout with the center batt. Car will always be balanced no matter how heavy the battery gets. Hope to see more cars like that, but with Lipos getting more popular, that may not happen.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:26 PM   #12
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It's a shame there's not a reliable, affordable source of Tamiya parts in the US for all their touring cars. They do a lot of neat things that seem to work really well in Japan.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:33 PM   #13
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It's a shame there's not a reliable, affordable source of Tamiya parts in the US for all their touring cars. They do a lot of neat things that seem to work really well in Japan.
No kidding, Im surprised one of the big 2 distributors hasn't been able to do this. Really spotty on Tamiya support for both.

Im not sure Pan Car is the answer. Esp when new pan cars are selling for almost as much as some touring cars. Crazy. Half the stuff, same price.
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:35 PM   #14
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I have noticed the opposite. The good drivers also knew how to tune brushed motors well and theirs were always consistent while new people struggled with both learning how to tune a motor and learning how to drive. Rather then getting extra track time they were at their pits juggling batteries, truing comms, and changing brushes. Now that brushless motors for the most part are equal and consistent run to run the up and coming guys are a lot closer to the "fast guys". In our super stock class there is about a 3 lap spread from first to last. In the brushed / nimh era that was like 5 or 6 laps.
I think your totaly wrong. The fast guys will always figure out how to be faster than the rest, just look at oval racing these guys already know the trick to go fast with lipos and brushless motors. Just warm up a lipo and you will be faster, there is a rule at the IIC for temping lipos and they have to be at a certain temp or your DQ'ed. Brushless motors are the same rc guys will figure out how to get more speed. So if you think it is equal now think again
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Old 08-20-2008, 03:03 PM   #15
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I think your totaly wrong. The fast guys will always figure out how to be faster than the rest, just look at oval racing these guys already know the trick to go fast with lipos and brushless motors. Just warm up a lipo and you will be faster, there is a rule at the IIC for temping lipos and they have to be at a certain temp or your DQ'ed. Brushless motors are the same rc guys will figure out how to get more speed. So if you think it is equal now think again
Apparently Im not wrong. The laptimes locally seem to prove otherwise at a very competitive track. Will there be speed secrets? Yep. Will they be as hard to achieve as they were on a brushed motor. Probably not.
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