HzR

That does look good, great initiative! That's what I enjoy most, races with spec tires and motors. I also think rubber tires are a bit easier to handle for newbies then foams. Creates a pretty equal playing field without costing a fortune.

In Europe they have quite a few spec series, which I think is great. The only problem is that it's usually sponsored by a manufacturer and they want you to run their motor. This gets expensive if you want to run in several different series. My ideal TC class: any chassis, any (for instance) 17.5 BL motor. For tires it's a bit difficult to have different manufacturers, but they are usually affordable if the organisers limit the number you can use.

Maybe now with lipos and brushless we get to the point where you really have more power then you need. That will level the playing field, until they start lengthening the heats to 8 min. or so and batteries do become very important again...

robk

iTrader: (22)

The baddest of them all
http://www.photoessayist.com/canam/c.../chaparral.htm

energyracing

iTrader: (1)

All, I have to say is TAMIYA, GT2, GT3 racing.
Close racing, controled cost and specs.

Look at the rules, they even out the playing field.
Sure you can still go crazy, but the cost are much more realistic.

It's up to the manufacturers and the clubs to orginise such events.

rezenclowd3

iTrader: (17)

Agreed.

redbones

Interesting. I think cutting the rear portion out on our RC bodies creates the same concept only at a much MUCH smaller scale. Would the forces be greater if we don't cut out the rear arches?

I guess it adds the best of both worlds. give more load on the tires without the momentum of added mass.

Actually, I think techracing made a funky body mount design that applies the down force directly to the arms instead of through the suspension... well, waaay back in time.

rezenclowd3

iTrader: (17)

That would be cool IMO. Like 8th scale onroad how the body is mounted essentially to the rear suspension.

Minami

iTrader: (5)

can you please post more info on tamiya's wind tunnel testings?

i was really thinking over these things (front canards, flat undersides and rear diffusers) if they can really aid my car in any or someway.

HzR

As far as I know IFMAR rules state that the chassis can't have any aerodynamic features. So you can change things on the body, but you can probably forget about flat bottoms (ok, that might pass) and diffusers...

If windtunnel testing in rc would get out of hand like in F1, cost would really go up!

But I'd also like some more info on those Tamiya tests, sounds interesting.

redbones

The wind tunnel test that tamiya did proved couple things.
1. Seems like the shape of the front hood/windshield helps most with the overall down force.
2. The addition of a larger rear wing(to a certain point) actually helped with front downforce as well.
3. Canards and small things did not have effect (negligible).

These are nice techical data, but I think the feeling of the body is most greatly felt with the weight distribution. Bodies like the NSX feels balanced because of the weight placement.
Heavy bodies will make the car roll more. But if you make the body out of a super thin lexan, the body will deform if you are running pretty fast which defeats the purpose of the aerodynamics. probably won't make a diff if you are running 13.5+ though.

Minami

iTrader: (5)

those are really interesting bits of info. i'm really excited on using my ebbro on the track next week..

tc3team

Im not sure I would give sedan the death sentance, but I am bored of seeing expensive chassis, lipo and brushless systems.... Then if you are unlucky you can ruin it very quickly with the wrong gear ratio/esc setup yadda yadda yadda.... Or the racing "incident" that breaks one or more expensive part...

(***IMHO***) racing shouldnt be about having the latest and greatest equipment. I know I can wheel a consistant lap but its no use without the latest and latest - or you get beaten... wheres my night cap? lol.

I'm off to race in a cheaper class soon before I pull my hair out in frustration... 540 motor in a simple 1/12 scale? nice.

(Ive seen sedan grow right from its bare roots in the UK, some 10/12 years ago, so maybe i've just got bored,lol).

Banshee8530

iTrader: (1)

I think a lot of the problems with TC racing stem from the current consumer mentality and can be seen in other classes as well. Electric 2wd off-road is pretty much gone... not because it wasn't fun, but because 4wd was "cooler" and nitro was hitting the scene. Many of the reasons suggested here for the pending demise of TC have not applied to other classes, specifically 1:8 nitro. ALL of those cars AND trucks are the exact same chassis design. Not one lick of difference, yet it thrives... Why? because its loud and fast. Exactly what the typical american consumer infatuated with instant gratification is looking for. I love TC, but I also loved 2wd offroad before it took a s***. This hobby is fueled by consumerism and herd mentality. Everyone races the same class, but they all want to be conspicuously different? How does that work? Don't get me wrong, I love innovation and creativity, but this hobby is going to gut itself by chasing the trend all the time. We need to show some customer loyalty by sticking with it, inviting friends to participate, and possibly try to race in the stock class more to keep car counts high and competition alive, because that is what we all ultimately crave.

On the other hand, there are those of us who like the technology more than the driving itself, and for those there will always be the latest and the greatest. You just need to pick your competition. Are you here to race rc cars or the pit bench.

tc3team

With the way the current economy is (far from good) and expensive $600+ sedans on the market, lipo, brushless etc its not looking good to stay at the sharp end of the game. Coupled with the expertise needed to set them up it is a far cry from when Tamiya made the first Front wheel drive/4wd sedans.

Racing was close and fun when it all started, now its over priced, over marketed and too complex for most to even consider starting, there will be little new blood soon.

People on an average wage will be looking at racing a simple,cost effective class of racing...

www.mardave.com does this VERY well.

gijoe64

iTrader: (30)

Yes were all talking about the decline of touring cars in the US but with all this talking what are we doing to save touring car racing? Are we going to change our style of racing with out complaning about the little things, are we going to stop trying to out buy each other and just learn to drive? Are we going to support our local hobby shops, even better are we going to put time in to take the preasure off of the hobby shops and start our own clubs and open our own tracks? Lipos and brushless motors are more expensive but you guys have gone and sold your brushed motors and nimhs so what do you thing the beginner is going to buy? You want to keep it cheap but you support XRay,Tamiya and all of the other extra expensive TC platform on the market now. And when some company comes out with a cheaper TC do we support it NO. I think we need to stop the bitching and pull our collective head out of our a$$ and make some changes. I love racing TC but I am as much to blame for the state of TC racing in this country just like all of you.

billjacobs

iTrader: (65)

Touring cars will never be maxed out as long as racers will pay $500 to gain .1 seconds per lap. There are always new and innovative designs and tweaks that simply need to be made. With the power available from brushless motors, and the weight savings from lipo, chassis design and traction will be even more important because you will have less mechanical traction from less weight.

The real point is why is on road r/c in decline? The state of the economy and the entry costs to competitive r/c (no adult wants to buy an entry level kit,) have destroyed the popularity of r/c in our area anyway.

If you want to restore r/c, you need to have and enforce spec, low cost classes. I would go so far as to say that tracks should focus on these classes. Those that spend a lot on r/c will simply pick up another kit. Newbie's will be happy to race on a budget. Spec needs to have a fixed, motor, fixed batteries, fixed tires, and fixed chassis. Because of brushless and lipo, the last high cost is tires. There need to be long lasting spec tires. With this idea, a spec package can be:
$150 kit
$150 brushless system
$70 radio system
$80 (2 2400mag orion lipo)
$30 lipo charger
$30 for tires

Total cost is about $500 complete for everything. That is expensive, but is still manageable.