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Old 08-27-2008, 06:31 PM   #76
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I was thinking maybe one good way to have a good beginner program would be to limit chassis, tires, motors, etc. like how TCS does it with the M-03 and GT3 classes, but the only difference would be to NOT ALLOW SANDBAGGERS!

It might work, provided the beginners can resist getting a 416 for their first car, which is to say they might not like all these rules and restrictions, even if it's for "their own good!"
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:35 PM   #77
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What I don't understand is everyone thinking spec racing will save people money and leave it up to driving skill... To a certain point it's true but the slower the motor the more this spec racing becomes equipment dependent rather than racing....
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:46 PM   #78
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yeh when people either buy tons of can motors and cook them to try and find a hot 1. or spend 50bux to get 1 that is touted' as a 'hot one'. thats can racing for ya.

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Old 08-27-2008, 07:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by stitchy View Post

Spec racing is a nice idea, but what ends up happening is all the veteran racers start "joining the fun" and thinking "surely I can win this class," and with their great tuning and driving skills, they quickly overmatch the beginners that the spec class was designed for in the first place! Oh the humanity!
The reality is that racing IS racing, and you will get beat. To keep the hobby up, people need to have FUN, not win. Fun is racing side by side, and going into a corner with 2 other guys, and coming out without spinning. Fun is going back and forth with someone for 12 laps, even if you are in 4 and 5th place.

It's is pretty unfun to try to drive a car that's too fast for you, or one that you break 4 times in 4 runs. It's not fun to get beat by 6 laps, or being in the way of the "fast guys".

What helps a lot is actually having a suitable car for beginning or less skilled drivers, and then ACTUALLY HELPING the new guys. Another big reason people quit is that setting a car with basic camber, ride height, and droop is kinda hard if you are new to it, or not too good at it. I know just getting that right will make a car 95% more driveable.

The biggest thing that brings people back is the feeling that they have a chance, and that they can improve. Without that, why bother, especially if it isn't a fun experience as well.
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Old 08-27-2008, 07:22 PM   #80
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So while it is *possible* to get away with a $150 kit, something like a Cyclone S or a TT-01, or use a $150 BL system, or Orion's 2400 lipos, or a $70 AM radio with one frequency, take a look at the pits, are a lot of people using those setups? Would you actually recommend that to a friend who wants to race competitively?
The $70 AM radio not so much, just because it is frustrating and usually sucks. There are cheap FM and moderate 2.4 g radios out there.

I see Tamiya shaft drive cars (TB01??) that are actually sick in trans am on asphalt. One guy at my track made me do a triple take on his $150 Tamiya car, it was awesome. Not to mention, I see the sub $100 tc3 with parts all the time, and they still work great on the track.

I would have no problem telling anybody to buy a Cyclone S or TA05 to start. Both cars can be upgraded to the moon. I have also seen and driven some great bone stock Tamiyas. Besides, any good, mainstream car, new or in proper used condition , is what a new guy needs. They are going to take some corners off before they go fast.

To be honest, anything more than a 3200 is really not needed for TA, and I would bet the same for GT3 or whatever. 2 2400 lipos will be much better than the craptastic batteries I had to start with.

Seriously, there must be something wrong with me in the head to have stuck with the hobby when I think about how I started. I RACED on the same 1200 and 1400 sanyos for like 3 or 4 years. Timer charger. Magnum junor am. Same beat down RC10 I bought with confirmation money in 7th grade. It was a buggy, a monster truck, a wedge dirt oval car, and a sprint car in its life time. I used to solder an old Futaba esc back together because the etch in the board fried in a spot. I had about 3 pair of tires as well.

Guess it just depends how bad you wanna race.
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Old 08-27-2008, 08:21 PM   #81
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or the day someone shows up with a car like oh, a pro4 hara ed for TA.
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Old 08-27-2008, 08:25 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by stitchy View Post
So while it is *possible* to get away with a $150 kit, something like a Cyclone S or a TT-01, or use a $150 BL system, or Orion's 2400 lipos, or a $70 AM radio with one frequency, take a look at the pits, are a lot of people using those setups? Would you actually recommend that to a friend who wants to race competitively?
In a competitive club race, that would probably get you in the B-main if you are a A-main regular. Well, at least around here.
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Old 08-27-2008, 08:41 PM   #83
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In a competitive club race, that would probably get you in the B-main if you are a A-main regular. Well, at least around here.
Theres a guy at my track who's tb02 plastic chassis TA car can outqualify some stock sedan drivers with much nicer cars. Its all driver and will to make that plastic car work good. I personally couldn't do it but some can, I just hate working on those things.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:16 PM   #84
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It still takes both an excellent driver and the best equipment to reach the A main at a large event. Andy Moore could outrun my serpent with an M chassis Tamiya car, but you wont see him using one to compete. I agree that at least at club level a great driver can win with almost anything, but the higher you go, the more differrence the better equipment makes.

For VTA my formula is more like this.

$350 kit
$250 brushless system
$170 radio system
$45(1 3200mah orion lipo)
$99 lipo charger
$50 for tires (1 set for VTA but they last most of the summer)
$27 HPI VTA shell

Total $991

OK so thats a lot more expensive than the earlier formula. Its certainly a lot to ask a newb to fork out, but at least you have good gear and when you lose its not your radios fault.
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:34 PM   #85
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The way I see it most people that run at club events should do real well on a conservative budget and more importantly probably have a lot of fun since they don't feel like they've droped every penny they have in a weekend race.

If you are racing big events then equipment cost should be the last of your worries when talking about expenses......

Like someone one already posted. Racing at your level of skill and budget should go a long way in getting rid off the frustrations that come with keeping up with the hardcore.....
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:37 PM   #86
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It still takes both an excellent driver and the best equipment to reach the A main at a large event. Andy Moore could outrun my serpent with an M chassis Tamiya car, but you wont see him using one to compete. I agree that at least at club level a great driver can win with almost anything, but the higher you go, the more differrence the better equipment makes.
I guess thats the point, how many people starting out are going to make the a-main in large events. How many need to start with the $600 touring car? A Tamiya TA-05 for someone starting out and beyond that would do just fine and be competitive for a while, even most club racer would be more than fine with a similar car. If your running something spec than any car should be up to the task. I have several cars I would be able to use for something like VTA, my best being my old Pro 2.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:26 PM   #87
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I race a TA-05 I bought about 5 months ago because I didn't know if I'd enjoy on-road racing or not. I got hooked and I'm still racing that same TA-05, plastic shocks and all. Bone stock except for a front spool. I've made it out of novice and now I'm racing Sportsman 13.5 and frankly, the car handles great. Granted, I spend a lot of time on setup and balance, but the car is bomb-proof and I have yet to DNF with a mechanical failure, which is a heck of a lot more than I can say for the pretty but fragile "pro" cars that almost everyone else drives.

I have become a huge fan of the TA-05. It's capable of a lot more than most people give it credit for! I think I got mine for about $125.

Similarly, I'm running VTA with a bone-stock (save for spool again) TB-02 I bought new for $50 after they were discontinued. Properly set up it's plenty of chassis for VTA. Handles like a dream at those speeds.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:46 AM   #88
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WTF?????
yes, in some areas that 3 lettered F word once associated with club racing has been replaced with expensive bling,lipo/matched cells and brushless setups. I dont care for winning an expensive class at club level for a bowling trophy once every 8 meetings.

I simply dont and cant justify high cost gratification.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:07 AM   #89
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Traxxas needs to come out with a spec TC.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:41 AM   #90
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The way I see it most people that run at club events should do real well on a conservative budget and more importantly probably have a lot of fun since they don't feel like they've droped every penny they have in a weekend race.

If you are racing big events then equipment cost should be the last of your worries when talking about expenses......

Like someone one already posted. Racing at your level of skill and budget should go a long way in getting rid off the frustrations that come with keeping up with the hardcore.....
You agree with what I wrote after this post, but the problem is the club sometimes- they dont run to a sedan budget, its all the bells and whistles that make the class expensive to run and no policing what cant be used, possibly in fear of turning racers, (and $) away....
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