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Old 08-27-2008, 02:23 PM   #61
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I belong to a small club in SE Ohio {OVRCCC} and we have seen a resurgence in our elec TC classes, nitro is almost a thing of the past
we have divided our touring classes according to ability,
Sportsman [novice]
Stock [intermediate]
Pro-Stock
all these classes have the same rules,
ie 27t or 13.5 B/L any HARDCASED lipo or NIMH
also we have a 19t/10.5 B/L rubber tire class
only 3 or 4 nitro touring
a couple of monster trucks,
and a small gathering of OVAL

we have embraced the B/L Lipo thing as it makes it easier for the 'noob'
most of our 'sportsman' start w/a TC-3/4 brushed/Nimh then move up as they want, it appears that the added INTIAL costs of B/L & lipo hasn't stopped any of our members from purchasing them

anyway, racers come & go, as lives change so do their hobbies, as technology further invades our hobby, the costs will continue to rise,
Thankx, Speedy
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:38 PM   #62
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Francis- Nah, it doesnt work like that (imho)...

Get a fistful of long time sedan racers and give them a cheaper car, it wont work as well. Chances are it will be heavier and less responsive in the turns. If one of that fistful has the better chassis they will have the edge, period.

Its like a pototo and a chip. which ones tastier? lol

Sedan is quickly turning into (if it hasnt already) the F1 of r/c racing.

Everything is expensive, exotic materials, expensive electrical parts, one run tyres.... It felt like a full time job at some clubs I went to....

But WHO will want to give up what they already have, or be told what to use? answer?

No one.


Wheres the fun gone? Mr A main winner, wake me up when its time to go home... ***I'm on holiday at the moment away from my car and track*** but the more I look at sedan the more I see with my own eyes why its becoming less popular and enjoyable and more expensive to race in.

Brushless motors and speed controls will work forever I hear you cry- how many sets of trinity XXX brushes will i burn up in the space of time it relates to 1 new esc/motor though?

I skim lightly once a meeting, hardly going to true down that commutator too quickly now is it????

WTF?????
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:42 PM   #63
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We all seem to need to have the best out there. That is what it comes down to. If $550 is what the "best" chassis goes for, we'll gladly pay it because we just couldn't stand the thought of being beat due to inferior equipment. I think the term is "Spoiled Brats". I'm not pointing fingers... I'm as bad as anyone... but really... how expensive can 2 lbs. of Carbon and aluminum really be? When I ask myself why I got into RC in the first place, I have to honestly answer it is the technology... the eye candy. Hey, I was kid... what can I say.

But, when I ask myself what keeps me coming back... its the competition, the thrill of racing. I've never been the guy to beat, sure I've one a few A-mains, but I don't dominate. And when a race day is over I don't talk about all the cool set-up stuff I just used or the wicked new motor I just put in. I talk about the turn that kept kickin' my a$$, or the new guy from out of town who schooled everyone.

Competition, baby... That's where its at.

Last edited by Banshee8530; 08-27-2008 at 02:43 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:55 PM   #64
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TC may be expensive, but I just paid $450 for a set of Dunlop tires for a full sized car that I can't even drive hard anymore because there is no longer a track here and because I am unwilling to use the streets for my own driving pleasure. Not to mention, I recently had to replace the front crossmember which cost $350 and took about 4-5 hours of work.

Therefore, my own perspective is that the cost of TC is not out of control, especially since there are great cars to learn how to race with which are available at a low cost such as the TA05 and the Cyclone S. Down here, the trend seems to be RC drifting. That's what guys that don't like the complexity, cost, and maintenance of TC do. I think RC drifting also has a "cool"-trendy factor for those guys since sliding a car at 5 mph quickly loses its novelty.
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Old 08-27-2008, 03:55 PM   #65
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Why is everyone so convinced touring cars are the most expensive and complex form of racing? Compared to what? 1/8 scale? There's hardly any difference between the cost or complexity to race 1/8 buggy than a 1/10 touring car.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:03 PM   #66
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Reading between the lines, it seems that everyone wants the most expensive chassis because they think it makes them faster. Everyone wants the aluminum because it is pretty. Everyone has to have the latest electronics to keep up with other racers. Anyone notice a trend here?

One of the big problems in r/c is that it is money pit hobby. Once money becomes tight, the hobby dies. This is exactly what is happening. I venture to say that if the racers here honestly look at how much they spend on r/c, including, gas and time, they will be shocked.

For the hobby to flourish, you need families to come out to race (at least fathers and sons.) The current tc environment, with its win at all costs, private club mentality, does its best to keep families away. The interesting thing is that club owners want families, but the racing culture (and racers) are the problem.

This is precisely why cost controlled spec classes are needed. If you limit or eliminate the bling and the eye candy and focus on the racing, turnout will grow.

New technology including BL and LIPO actually cost much less than "old" technology. The problem is that racers apply old attitudes and item of the week mentalities to BL and LIPO. To those that say they are too expensive, look at your equipment, add up the costs, and then decide. The beauty of brushless and lipo is that it levels the field. BUT, it only does this if everyone is running the same thing (brand and type.) Otherwise, you get right back into the battery/tire/motor/chassis of the week. At this point, regardless of what many here think, tc r/c is on the brink of disappearing. The economy and the costs associated with tc and r/c in general are killing it.

So we can:
1) keep the status quo and watch turnouts drop to 5 racers as more tracks close,
2) change racing, embrace new technology, and stop falling into the spending trap.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:17 PM   #67
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I don't agree with the money pit claim at all, You can choose to participate at any level that suits your intentions and budget, You can choose how hard you want to run your car.

And even if you aim for the top level, its still cheap compared to many other hobbies. Where else can you have the full suite of top level world championship winning gear for around a grand?

Dirt cheap.

Hell, I lost 6 grand on my dirt bike when I sold it.......
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:22 PM   #68
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I don't agree with the money pit claim at all, You can choose to participate at any level that suits your intentions and budget, You can choose how hard you want to run your car.
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Old 08-27-2008, 04:26 PM   #69
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If you want to restore r/c, you need to have and enforce spec, low cost classes. I would go so far as to say that tracks should focus on these classes. Those that spend a lot on r/c will simply pick up another kit. Newbie's will be happy to race on a budget. Spec needs to have a fixed, motor, fixed batteries, fixed tires, and fixed chassis. Because of brushless and lipo, the last high cost is tires. There need to be long lasting spec tires. With this idea, a spec package can be:
$150 kit
$150 brushless system
$70 radio system
$80 (2 2400mag orion lipo)
$30 lipo charger
$30 for tires

Total cost is about $500 complete for everything. That is expensive, but is still manageable.
You can do this budget in Trans AM and have the most fun ever with TC. Anybody can race a Cyclone S or TA05 and have a blast.
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:52 PM   #70
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I dunno. I've been in and out of this hobby for over 20 years and have just recently had a real interest in TC. I've been keeping an eye on what's out there and what's in the pits. I suppose its a money pit if you let it get that way...

So while it is *possible* to get away with a $150 kit, something like a Cyclone S or a TT-01, or use a $150 BL system, or Orion's 2400 lipos, or a $70 AM radio with one frequency, take a look at the pits, are a lot of people using those setups? Would you actually recommend that to a friend who wants to race competitively?

If you listen to some advice given by veteran racers, most will tell you that you *might* be competitive in novice with that setup, but probably not anything higher. If you're thinking about a TA-05, might as well get an IFS or even an IFS-R, it only costs a bit more and you get all this bling! Oh, and the stock tires are crap, you'll need these. The 2400 battery isn't gonna be enough, you need this. Don't get a cheap AM radio, you want 2.4. And so on and so on. Sayings like "buy cheap, buy twice," "you get what you pay for," and "you only live once" don't help either!!

Spec racing is a nice idea, but what ends up happening is all the veteran racers start "joining the fun" and thinking "surely I can win this class," and with their great tuning and driving skills, they quickly overmatch the beginners that the spec class was designed for in the first place! Oh the humanity!
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Old 08-27-2008, 05:57 PM   #71
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Sayings like "buy cheap, buy twice," "you get what you pay for," and "you only live once" don't help either!!
Sadly, this has been very true.


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Spec racing is a nice idea, but what ends up happening is all the veteran racers start "joining the fun" and thinking "surely I can win this class," and with their great tuning and driving skills, they quickly overmatch the beginners that the spec class was designed for in the first place! Oh the humanity
yes, when you have A-main TC drivers running in the TA class... no competition at all.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:11 PM   #72
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Spec racing is a nice idea, but what ends up happening is all the veteran racers start "joining the fun" and thinking "surely I can win this class," and with their great tuning and driving skills, they quickly overmatch the beginners that the spec class was designed for in the first place! Oh the humanity!
The same thing occurs in 1/24 slot car racing and drives out the new racers as well.

Personally I am getting into TC to have fun and not race competitively, even though I am running a TC5.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:15 PM   #73
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Default spec racing

The whole point of spec racing is for everyone to have the same thing. Same chassis, same tires, same motor, same esc, same battery. You could even spec a servo to keep that the same. Once the class becomes popular, you break it into tiers to match driver skills. I think that the radio and receiver of choice is insignificant in a spec class.

To all those that say r/c is not too expensive, total how much you have spent, including tires and then see if that's true.

One of the things I see in r/c is that many racers are school age (including college,) and don't yet have families, kids, mortgage, etc. If you reduce the cost and prep time associated with r/c (which spec, BL, Lipo do very well,) more racers with families will turn out.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:17 PM   #74
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I wonder how many new racers would quit if they didn't have the -> "I can't afford to get good stuff excuse?" One of the problems in past spec racing is that you controlled the chassis and type of motor/battery, but you didn't spec a specific motor/battery, etc. If who wins comes down to pure chassis tuning and driving skill, many more racers would turn out.
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Old 08-27-2008, 06:28 PM   #75
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2wd offroad dead? idk where ur gettin that idea.

i wont cry if they go away, but if they stay and folks get back into F1. then i'll be happy.

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