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Old 08-27-2008, 08:46 AM   #46
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Drift anyone?
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Old 08-27-2008, 09:01 AM   #47
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Touring cars will never be maxed out as long as racers will pay $500 to gain .1 seconds per lap. There are always new and innovative designs and tweaks that simply need to be made. With the power available from brushless motors, and the weight savings from lipo, chassis design and traction will be even more important because you will have less mechanical traction from less weight.

The real point is why is on road r/c in decline? The state of the economy and the entry costs to competitive r/c (no adult wants to buy an entry level kit,) have destroyed the popularity of r/c in our area anyway.

If you want to restore r/c, you need to have and enforce spec, low cost classes. I would go so far as to say that tracks should focus on these classes. Those that spend a lot on r/c will simply pick up another kit. Newbie's will be happy to race on a budget. Spec needs to have a fixed, motor, fixed batteries, fixed tires, and fixed chassis. Because of brushless and lipo, the last high cost is tires. There need to be long lasting spec tires. With this idea, a spec package can be:
$150 kit
$150 brushless system
$70 radio system
$80 (2 2400mag orion lipo)
$30 lipo charger
$30 for tires

Total cost is about $500 complete for everything. That is expensive, but is still manageable.
Welcome back Bill. Thought we lost you for a while. Dust off those cars and see you around this weekend.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:18 AM   #48
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The cars, batteries, motors and tires have reached an amazing level of performnace. I'm hoping that the next thing to be improved are the tracks and surfaces we race on.

We need an inexpensive high traction surface combined with soft walls and forgiving dots more now than ever. If somebody can make a 60 x 120 track that costs less than an arm and a leg touring car would be huge.
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Old 08-27-2008, 10:51 AM   #49
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I like everything you guys say. You make excellent points. Let me be the devil's advocate for a minute and say this: Who of the elite racers are going to be willing to down grade in quality and performance to race with and get bashed by beginners? I for one think that a universal spec class sponsored by a national sanctioning body would be excellent for the hobby. I would put away all the high-end money-pit garbage for a bit of good competition that only a spec class can offer. But my experience with spec classes is that they only stay "spec" for so long.

I live in a small community in Wyoming where a viable RC club, let alone a quality hobby shop, are near impossible to establish. Everyone wants to run different classes, and all the experienced drivers(adults) want different races to seperate them from the beginners(kids). I now have to travel 3 hours to get to a decent carpet race with a good driver count.

I would like to place some of the blame on the RC industry itself for chasing the fad and losing touch with the heart of the hobby, but I have to say also that I do enjoy the diversity of what is available.

Last edited by Banshee8530; 08-27-2008 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 08-27-2008, 11:02 AM   #50
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Who of the elite racers are going to be willing to down grade in quality and performance to race with and get bashed by beginners?
I am not willing to step down in quality or performance. I got into this hobby to understand what makes equipment the best of the best, and how to use it appropriately. However, I am willing to help out the noob that is trying to understand as well. If I can not have competition with drivers of like ability, I will change classes to something that I can compete with other like drivers.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:04 PM   #51
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Just some side information about our club races in Memphis, TN...

We have the standard TC classes in both Electric and Nitro, and they are both dominated like you say with high cost cars, electronics, motors, servos, ...

However, we have 2 spec classes (did have 3 but one just didn't take off). We race Tamiya mini coopers according to TCS rules, and usually have 3 times the participation than we do in TC. On the nitro side we run a spec class with the Kyosho IGT, and have triple the participation.

Now our top drivers in TC and Nitro 1/10 also normally compete in the spec classes, and usually win those too. But we have all skill levels running in the mini and it is just a barrel of fun ). We do however break up the IGT into Expert and sportsman just because the cars are bigger and have more power.

Spec classes can work, but for the majority of tracks that already have a spec class or two, will TC spec be able to thrive and survive? Me personally.. I wouldn't support a full spec TC class as I am already supporting the mini spec class. If we didn't race mini... that is another thing.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:16 PM   #52
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I like everything you guys say. You make excellent points. Let me be the devil's advocate for a minute and say this: Who of the elite racers are going to be willing to down grade in quality and performance to race with and get bashed by beginners? I for one think that a universal spec class sponsored by a national sanctioning body would be excellent for the hobby. I would put away all the high-end money-pit garbage for a bit of good competition that only a spec class can offer. But my experience with spec classes is that they only stay "spec" for so long.

I live in a small community in Wyoming where a viable RC club, let alone a quality hobby shop, are near impossible to establish. Everyone wants to run different classes, and all the experienced drivers(adults) want different races to seperate them from the beginners(kids). I now have to travel 3 hours to get to a decent carpet race with a good driver count.

I would like to place some of the blame on the RC industry itself for chasing the fad and loosing touch with the heart of the hobby, but I have to say also that I do enjoy the diversity of what is available.
Do I enjoy the complexity of touring cars?

Do I enjoy the high costs (even though I am sponsored)?

Do I enjoy the keeping up with technology and car setup in general?

If you answered NO to all 3 you are the same as me, it's time for a change in scale, or some spec racing.

Make it CHEAP, SLOWER and less TECHNICAL and people will come to your facility!!! If the car is cheaper you have less running costs, which can only equate to a happier bank balance and more money for gas to getting to new tracks... new faces and more track time!

For now, let the wealthy play with their "toy" car for just that bowling trophy gratification... I stopped liking sedan when brushless motors/esc's came into effect, buy it (and with that additional power came more tyres and wear on the car) or step out the ring....

Question: Where is the stability of rules and cost in sedan?

Answer: there never was one in traditional sedan racing until spec/trans am classes came about.

I have a brand new, built 3 months ago TRF415MSXX sitting at home, do I feel inclined to race it? Part of me says no as soon we'll have something else to power our cars, what will it be next- wind turbines and solar power???

Ok.... I'm off my rant stool now guys
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:43 PM   #53
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I think Tamiya has already answered most of the questions raised here. TCS should be more widely spread throughout the nation. Unfortunately, I don't think Tamiya USA has that kind of resource.

For the younger crowd, there's the mini4wd that is still huge in Japan. Kids can start getting technical at an early age with these. But not many care for it in the US. Why? It is because kids don't want to get their hands dirty these days. Not going into detail here since it has been done to death in another thread, but the mechnically adept population is decreasing imo.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:45 PM   #54
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My two bits on the constant upgrade trend... I HATE LIPO BATTERIES!!!

Lipo has just as many drawbacks as NiMH but with increased risk of explosion as I see it. That's not safe for anyone!

What does an Xray T2008 do that a AE TC5 can't for half the price?

Yeah, innovation is cool, but as of now I'm not on the upgrade bandwagon anymore.

Keep buying your Lipo batteries guys, because now I can get Pro-Match NiMH's fore half the price I was paying.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:57 PM   #55
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Lipo has just as many drawbacks as NiMH but with increased risk of explosion as I see it. That's not safe for anyone!
You must be kidding! Ive witness several nimh explosion but never a lipo explosion at the track.
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Old 08-27-2008, 01:57 PM   #56
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What's everyone complaining about???

For every example of $500.00 chasis there are just as much chasis ranging from $150.00 to $300.00 that is just as competitive at the level most of us drive at????
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #57
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I guess that extra couple hundred dollars is worth it for an extra 0.2 sec. If you can drive that good that is. People that have $$$ will dish it out. But addictive(and crazy) as this hobby gets, most of the drivers do go over to the dark side($$$) and THEN learn about the facts.
Most club level racing don't need those kinds of cars, but if it becomes a spec chassis class(ie no CF), then the allure will deminish. Some ppl just want the bling. Hey, the manufactures are all in it to make money. It is a business afterall.

I still don't understand why the xray is so expensive over the TC5. are the alloy parts made of magnesium?
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:09 PM   #58
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Francis- Nah, it doesnt work like that (imho)...

Get a fistful of long time sedan racers and give them a cheaper car, it wont work as well. Chances are it will be heavier and less responsive in the turns. If one of that fistful has the better chassis they will have the edge, period.

Its like a pototo and a chip. which ones tastier? lol

Sedan is quickly turning into (if it hasnt already) the F1 of r/c racing.

Everything is expensive, exotic materials, expensive electrical parts, one run tyres.... It felt like a full time job at some clubs I went to....

But WHO will want to give up what they already have, or be told what to use? answer?

No one.


Wheres the fun gone? Mr A main winner, wake me up when its time to go home...

***I'm on holiday at the moment away from my car and track*** but the more I look at sedan the more I see with my own eyes why its becoming less popular and enjoyable and more expensive to race in.

Brushless motors and speed controls will work forever I hear you cry- how many sets of trinity XXX brushes will i burn up in the space of time it relates to 1 new esc/motor though?

I skim lightly once a meeting, hardly going to true down that commutator too quickly now is it????
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:12 PM   #59
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I guess that extra couple hundred dollars is worth it for an extra 0.2 sec. If you can drive that good that is. People that have $$$ will dish it out. But addictive(and crazy) as this hobby gets, most of the drivers do go over to the dark side($$$) and THEN learn about the facts.
Most club level racing don't need those kinds of cars, .
well said. No one will give up their bling though... it looks too pretty and we've paid a premium for it... Shelf queen racing anyone?
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Old 08-27-2008, 02:22 PM   #60
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well said. No one will give up their bling though... it looks too pretty and we've paid a premium for it... Shelf queen racing anyone?
I love my Tamiya blue on my TA05-ifs of all cars. I just stare at it sometimes. Love the color and the mechanicalness.
But just can't justify myself to get the alum motor mount and the bulkheads. Going to be worth more than my 416 if I do get them
Seesh, look who is talking. Guys like me keep the hobby alive
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