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Old 09-25-2008, 09:06 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Actually the production packs will only use 2 cells so we expect the capacity to be around 3800 so the continous amp draw will be 95 amps as the amp draw increases as you put cells in parallel.
If it's only 2 cells does that mean there's a chance of a saddle pack version at a later date?
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:15 AM   #197
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A saddle pack would require totally new cells because of the length. The stick style pack is a great start and if things take off I'll bet SMC looks at saddle packs just like they did for dirt.
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Old 09-25-2008, 02:15 PM   #198
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And it is silly. In fact, it's among the worst design ideas I've ever heard. It shows a great lack of understanding among members of the R/C racing industry.

However, it isn't SMC I'm referring to here. SMC is just trying to put a band aid on the problem created by both motor manufacturers and ROAR officials. Those two groups of folks should have commissioned and tested a smaller motor the instant lipo was approved by ROAR for touring car racing - if not earlier.

As Attendee said, limiting the motor and running 2s is the answer. Specifically, limit the motor by making it smaller (if you want to bring the weight down) or by making just the rotor diameter smaller (if you want to keep the motor's weight up).

-Adam
I couldn't agree with you more.

As you/we all know that lipo battery and brushless motor are here to stay and Ni-Mh and brushed motor's day s are number. In my local track, except a few guys, pretty much everyone else all switch to lipo and brushless. And soon, it will be all lipo and brushless all the time.
But for the time being, because of ROAR’s rules we go by, 1/12 racer can not really enjoy the benefits that lipo brings to electric racing. Until we, or some one of us, figure out a way to put togethere a suitable lipo with brushless package , I for-see a drop in participants in 1/12 racing, because many of them, like myself, will never ever want to buy Ni-Mh again.

I’m glad that Danny/SMC is taking the step trying to find a solution so the 1/12 scale racers can also enjoy the benefits the li-po battery brings. BUT……here comes the but,

Is single cell really the way to go?
I think 2 cells with a small motor is the way to go.

I used 2cell lipo with 2400 mah in capacity with 1/18 momba, 5400kv motor in my car, as you can see in the attached pictures

Last Sunday, Dave of 360 raceway drove Danny’s car in his heat, his fastest lap was 10.6, I did a 10.5 with my car. The week before, during practice, I did a 10.4, right before that I let Mike Hynes try it, and he did a few 10.3 with it.

I'm not putting down Danny's idea, all I ‘m trying to say is that there are other ways to package a 1/12 car, as far as battery and motor goes, and we shouldn’t rush to any decision.

Before any one who is for single cell approach screaming at me, I like to say this: I know this thread is for single cell for 1/12, so I will not post any thing regarding my 2 cells approach again.

This weekend, I will try different motor with 4200kv or 3800kv, and may be create my own thread for people who like to explore new option, exchange ideas and make the 1/12 scale racing the best it can be.

The bottom line is Danny/SMC should be commended, so am I, for trying to make lipo work for the 1/12 scale, and make the 1/12 scale better than it is now.
Attached Thumbnails
SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo-100_0191.jpg   SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo-100_0205.jpg   SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo-100_0218.jpg   SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo-100_0224.jpg   SMC 5700mAh 25C Single Cell Lipo-100_0213.jpg  

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Old 09-25-2008, 02:57 PM   #199
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Start that new thread, Roland S. I'm interested in you ideas. Also interested in SMC's approach.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:16 PM   #200
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Running a different motor would mean that I have to have to buy a new pack, new motors and a new speedo. None of the electronics will work in my sedan during the summer. You guys are correct, there are many ways to "skin the cat". 2 cell skins the cat and then you have to replace the heart and liver.

Single cell won't require us to all rush out and buy batteries, motors and speedo's that are worthless in other classes. Some of us do run the same motors and electronics (except batteries) in sedan all summer.

All we need to change to run single cell voltage is the battery and a receiver pack or buck booster (step up voltage for receiver and transponder).

Slowing down 12th and/or oval with single cell voltage is a inexpensive way to get the speeds (especially in mod) back to a realistic levels and keep the motors and speed controls the same as sedan.

Yes, I've run both 2c and 1c voltage in 12th and 1C is better IMO.
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Old 09-25-2008, 03:44 PM   #201
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For a while I was in favor of just comming up with a replacement motor. Smaller diameter, smaller rotor, shorter case. The 28mm sized motors came to my mind as a good start untill I looked into the motors. These motors are still too powerful at 7.4V. I think I had a few post saying that I didn't want to deal with 3.7V and a rX pack last year. The 21.5 Lipo changed my mind. I bought one and realized there is no motor for the beginners in stock pan car classes.

When I started converting my cars to brushless I went with 13.5. And over time my 13.5 powerplants has gained 30W of power because of better batteries, sintered rotor, and better ESC than the SS I started with. So I expect more improvements in speed in the future.

So why force all the racers in a archaic race class that is older than myself to go out and buy new motors and new coversion kits for thier car? Then 6 months later have to buy a new car that has a better CG. Ontop of that, you are asking manufactures to develope a product that may not satisfy racers needs or be legal. This then forces car kit prices higher and motor prices higher to cover the cost of a dead end R&D.

Going to 3.7V would not be a bandaid. Going to 3.7V would be a viable solution for 1:12 and 1:10 pan cars. It would provide the much needed speed reset for stock classes and still provide the punch in MOD.

There are a world of LiPO's to choose from, so just buy a lipo that fits the car. Instead, racers are wanting to make the car and the motor fit the LiPO. That is just extra money spent that does not need to be spent.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:35 PM   #202
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I too have run 1 and 2 cell in a 12th, and feel that 1 cell is better for 12th at the moment.
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Old 09-25-2008, 06:52 PM   #203
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3.7V is the way to go in pan cars
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Old 09-25-2008, 08:33 PM   #204
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just curious why you need all that new gear like an esc if you go to a small motor? novak makes a sensored 380 size motor...
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Old 09-25-2008, 09:38 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by adamge View Post
However, it isn't SMC I'm referring to here. SMC is just trying to put a band aid on the problem created by both motor manufacturers and ROAR officials. Those two groups of folks should have commissioned and tested a smaller motor the instant lipo was approved by ROAR for touring car racing - if not earlier.
-Adam
To be truthful, ROAR cannot be blamed. 1/12th is the oldest onroad class and it really should be IFMAR that will determine the eventual rules.

For now, both solutions 2s, and 1s lipo should be experimented with until one wins out. Its really up to us the racers to determine the future of this class by demonstrating prototype designs for the new rules. I suggest a worthy indvidual out there should contact ROAR and volunteer to do the commission, and work with ROAR by contacting IFMAR, and all memeber blocs.

I've been leaning toward the 1s solution myself, but I do kind of like the idea of a smaller motor with a 2s lipo in terms of body shell possibilities when you end up lowering the upper pod bracket.
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Old 09-25-2008, 10:40 PM   #206
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I couldn't agree with you more.

As you/we all know that lipo battery and brushless motor are here to stay and Ni-Mh and brushed motor's day s are number. In my local track, except a few guys, pretty much everyone else all switch to lipo and brushless. And soon, it will be all lipo and brushless all the time.
But for the time being, because of ROAR’s rules we go by, 1/12 racer can not really enjoy the benefits that lipo brings to electric racing. Until we, or some one of us, figure out a way to put togethere a suitable lipo with brushless package , I for-see a drop in participants in 1/12 racing, because many of them, like myself, will never ever want to buy Ni-Mh again.

I’m glad that Danny/SMC is taking the step trying to find a solution so the 1/12 scale racers can also enjoy the benefits the li-po battery brings. BUT……here comes the but,

Is single cell really the way to go?
I think 2 cells with a small motor is the way to go.

I used 2cell lipo with 2400 mah in capacity with 1/18 momba, 5400kv motor in my car, as you can see in the attached pictures

Last Sunday, Dave of 360 raceway drove Danny’s car in his heat, his fastest lap was 10.6, I did a 10.5 with my car. The week before, during practice, I did a 10.4, right before that I let Mike Hynes try it, and he did a few 10.3 with it.

I'm not putting down Danny's idea, all I ‘m trying to say is that there are other ways to package a 1/12 car, as far as battery and motor goes, and we shouldn’t rush to any decision.

Before any one who is for single cell approach screaming at me, I like to say this: I know this thread is for single cell for 1/12, so I will not post any thing regarding my 2 cells approach again.

This weekend, I will try different motor with 4200kv or 3800kv, and may be create my own thread for people who like to explore new option, exchange ideas and make the 1/12 scale racing the best it can be.

The bottom line is Danny/SMC should be commended, so am I, for trying to make lipo work for the 1/12 scale, and make the 1/12 scale better than it is now.
Roland,
Dave did not run my car this past weekend, just FYI.

-As far as 1C Lipo. I've done quite a bit of testing with it. It really makes sense to me. We arent going to need new electronics, hell, most of us would not even need new motors as most sedan guys are all running 13.5's nowadays.

It is going to give us some real good options.

Sportsman 1/12th- 17.5/1C lipo, finally somthing a lil slower than what stock has been the past few years, which is too fast for newbies.

Stock 1/12th- 13.5/1C lipo. Ive tested this back to back with 17.5/4-cell Nimh and it is identical. Same lap times, same peak MPH at end of straightaway (radar gun tested)

Mod 1/12th- How about Mod 1/12th at the local level for the more advanced racers? This class has been pretty much dead on a local level and here is a chance to revive it and have fun with it, being the cars could actually be driveable once again, as well as even having to conserve energy with your throttle finger like back in the day. (3800mah capacity)

I'll post some pics of my car with the lipo installed tomorrow, I am currently running it with a 13.5 to simulate stock.

To me this is the way of the future and just makes so much sense.. props to Danny for his thoughts and hard work that has gone into this project.


-Donny Lia
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:55 AM   #207
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Roland,
Dave did not run my car this past weekend, just FYI.

-As far as 1C Lipo. I've done quite a bit of testing with it. It really makes sense to me. We arent going to need new electronics, hell, most of us would not even need new motors as most sedan guys are all running 13.5's nowadays.

It is going to give us some real good options.

Sportsman 1/12th- 17.5/1C lipo, finally somthing a lil slower than what stock has been the past few years, which is too fast for newbies.

Stock 1/12th- 13.5/1C lipo. Ive tested this back to back with 17.5/4-cell Nimh and it is identical. Same lap times, same peak MPH at end of straightaway (radar gun tested)

Mod 1/12th- How about Mod 1/12th at the local level for the more advanced racers? This class has been pretty much dead on a local level and here is a chance to revive it and have fun with it, being the cars could actually be driveable once again, as well as even having to conserve energy with your throttle finger like back in the day. (3800mah capacity)

I'll post some pics of my car with the lipo installed tomorrow, I am currently running it with a 13.5 to simulate stock.

To me this is the way of the future and just makes so much sense.. props to Danny for his thoughts and hard work that has gone into this project.


-Donny Lia
Donny,

Were you running a receiver pack with the 1C lipo?

brian
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:17 AM   #208
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Hi Brian,

Yes, you have to run a receiver pack with the single cell. The little Lipo receiver packs last a long time, and take up minimal space on the chassis.

Have a great day.-Bruce
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:51 AM   #209
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Roland,
Dave did not run my car this past weekend, just FYI.

-Donny Lia
Danny, thanks for the info.I got that impresion that he was running your car from his post #[email protected]:

http://www.rctech.net/forum/racing-f...bbies-141.html

Anyway, today, I'll take a day off to try a new motor, maybe I race you tonight, or may be on Sunday.

Come to think of it, it's really great that we can put each other, not the racer but the car, I'm just a local nobody, and you're a national champion, into test and see which racing package is better.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:24 AM   #210
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Hi Brian,

Yes, you have to run a receiver pack with the single cell. The little Lipo receiver packs last a long time, and take up minimal space on the chassis.

Have a great day.-Bruce
Hello Sir,

Do you have any suggestion as to what lipo receiver pack to use? Links?


Danny/SMC: Is this available now or any idea when will this be available?

Thanks guys!!
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