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Old 08-10-2008, 10:46 AM   #1
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hey all: It looks like to me that li-po batteries are turning out like suv's have in that many car companies that never offered a truck began offering an suv. Now it seems li-po batteries are going the same way in that some companies that never offered nicad/ni-mh batteries are now offering li-po's. Is this because li-po's are the wave of the future or because as i heard one novak employee put it "there was to much change over in nicad/ni-mh batteries for us (novak) to keep up with"? Thanks for the info
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Old 08-10-2008, 10:51 AM   #2
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Interested, but not too involved because my local club race outlawed it after someone's car caught fire and left a black mark on the track...
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:01 AM   #3
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lipo the new nimh! u aint seen nuttin yet baby!
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
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YA we banned ESC's,brushed motors,nicads and nihms. Cuz one time at band camp one of each of these has blown up on the track.

We are working on banning chargers too as we had one of those go up in somke in the pits a few years back
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:09 AM   #5
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YA we banned ESC's,brushed motors,nicads and nihms. Cuz one time at band camp one of each of these has blown up on the track.

We are working on banning chargers too as we had one of those go up in somke in the pits a few years back
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:25 AM   #6
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There's LOTS of companies making LiPo cells, it's big business. It's way harder for someone to come in and lock down the distribution rights for the entire country. So, it's probably a lot easier to find OEM sources and put your sticker on them. Between brushless and LiPo, it seems like Trinity has the most to lose. They used to be the main source for most of that stuff. Now they're barely and afterthought.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:33 AM   #7
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When Lipos were originally marketed for RC car use many seemed to think that all Lipos are the same and you just repeak and run them with nothing special to do to them.

Now that Lipos are being used in competitive racing we have found out that different packs run differently and that Lipos aren't all the same. See my Lipo confusion thread as I try to explain what makes for better Lipo performance.

We have also figured out that you can get better performance out of Lipos by treating them in a certain way. This may not be required for everyone but for thos looking to extract the most out of there packs there are things that can be done to get more performance.

I remember warning racers that Lipos would not be that much different than sub-c cells and I was called a liar and that I was trying to scare racers away to protect our matching business. That being said Lipos have a very good cycle life and they are relatively easy to maintain so they do offer benefits over sub-c cells.
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:55 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
When Lipos were originally marketed for RC car use many seemed to think that all Lipos are the same and you just repeak and run them with nothing special to do to them.

Now that Lipos are being used in competitive racing we have found out that different packs run differently and that Lipos aren't all the same. See my Lipo confusion thread as I try to explain what makes for better Lipo performance.

We have also figured out that you can get better performance out of Lipos by treating them in a certain way. This may not be required for everyone but for thos looking to extract the most out of there packs there are things that can be done to get more performance.

I remember warning racers that Lipos would not be that much different than sub-c cells and I was called a liar and that I was trying to scare racers away to protect our matching business. That being said Lipos have a very good cycle life and they are relatively easy to maintain so they do offer benefits over sub-c cells.
With warming being outlawed at IIC, all I plan to do with my two SMC packs is, well, repeak them after a race, unless it's the final race of the day, then I'll let them sit at whatever charge is left. Is there some other voodoo I should plan on using?
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Old 08-10-2008, 11:59 AM   #9
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Danny- that is what I have been thinking the entire time and agreed with you back then. It was only a matter of time when enough "racing" had been done with Lipos that as racers we would find ways to get better performance out of them. Lipos were championed by racers that said that the battery wars would be over....buy em, charge em and race em. Well from the looks of it the honeymoon is about over. Heating them up, high amp charging, ect are things now being done to get that edge. Sounds like the plug and play factor is starting to disappear.

I am interested in seeing if Lipo will totally take over this hobby or will the older batts hang on to some of the market.

I am not against Lipos. But also did not see them as perfect as some were selling them off as being.

Jeff
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:03 PM   #10
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Storing your packs with to much storage charge will reduce some of the packs capacity. Some also seem to feel better performance by discharging the pack down at 35 amps to 6 volts and charging it back up. This maybe due to some memory effect. I know some claim that Lipos have no memory effect but I was told by a very knowledgeable guy that they do which could explain why some feel it's best to discharge them down. Some have also reported that the first run of the day that the packs aren't as fast and the more you run it in a day the better it gets.

Of course all of this is good if you want to extract that little bit of extra out of your packs but this is what seems to help.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Werner View Post
Danny- that is what I have been thinking the entire time and agreed with you back then. It was only a matter of time when enough "racing" had been done with Lipos that as racers we would find ways to get better performance out of them. Lipos were championed by racers that said that the battery wars would be over....buy em, charge em and race em. Well from the looks of it the honeymoon is about over. Heating them up, high amp charging, ect are things now being done to get that edge. Sounds like the plug and play factor is starting to disappear.

I am interested in seeing if Lipo will totally take over this hobby or will the older batts hang on to some of the market.

I am not against Lipos. But also did not see them as perfect as some were selling them off as being.

Jeff
Lipos will take over as it seems they are as fast if not faster than NiMh. You do get better cycle life and they are easier to maintain. It's up to tracks and race organisers to make rules that keeps it simple. The number one rule is no overcharging. The second rule should be no heating up of the pack.

With all the different lipo packs being sold it's almost worst than sub-c cells as when buying sub-c packs most every matcher was buying the same cells. Now with Lipos you have many options and this is why I started the Lipo confusion thread to try and help racers better understand what makes for better Lipos.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
Storing your packs with to much storage charge will reduce some of the packs capacity. Some also seem to feel better performance by discharging the pack down at 35 amps to 6 volts and charging it back up. This maybe due to some memory effect. I know some claim that Lipos have no memory effect but I was told by a very knowledgeable guy that they do which could explain why some feel it's best to discharge them down. Some have also reported that the first run of the day that the packs aren't as fast and the more you run it in a day the better it gets.

Of course all of this is good if you want to extract that little bit of extra out of your packs but this is what seems to help.
Cool, thanks for the info. That sounds really involved for an edge that may or may not exist. I'll probably just stick to charging them up and racing with them, which is exactly the same process I used 2+ years ago when LiPo first hit the scene. I hope it works!
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:12 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Danny/SMC View Post
The second rule should be no heating up of the pack.
If this rule is used (like at IIC) it should be extended to exclude any practices which put heat into the packs in other ways, like 3C charging, etc. Heating packs with an external source to reasonable temperatures is safe. Some of those other methods are questionable.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:20 PM   #14
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For the heat rule you need to leave a certain range. What will be done at the IIC and should be done at local tracks is to have a pack in tech and measure the temp of it and allow 10 farenheit above the control pack as it could be warmer in some parts of the building or pit area due to power supplies , lights , chargers and other things creating heat.

You can't make a rule to control charge rate as this would be impossible to tech. Charging at 2C only createst an extra 3-4 degrees so charging at 3C will not heat up the pack much higher than 2C. I think the +10 degree rule should keep everything relatively equal.
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Old 08-10-2008, 12:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by b-man777 View Post
hey all: It looks like to me that li-po batteries are turning out like suv's have in that many car companies that never offered a truck began offering an suv. Now it seems li-po batteries are going the same way in that some companies that never offered nicad/ni-mh batteries are now offering li-po's. Is this because li-po's are the wave of the future or because as i heard one novak employee put it "there was to much change over in nicad/ni-mh batteries for us (novak) to keep up with"? Thanks for the info
There is a lot less investment required to sell lipo batteries... it's that simple. ni-mh cells required lots of matchers and a heck of a lot of time to match. In comparsion lipos require little to nothing other than a hookup in china and 15k or so in order to get a battery OEM produced with your label.
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